Loyalist arms and the 1768 Charleville musket review

[Matt85]

i have been doing some research and while ive found plenty of people saying "indian guns are bad" or "indian guns are ok", ive found very few actual reviews on the guns or companies that sell them. so ive decided to do a relatively simple review of both Loyalist Arms and the 1768 Charleville i just ordered. this review will span a month or two depending on my available free time.

Ordering: purchasing a firearm from Loyalist Arms is a bit different from most vendors. to buy a musket from them you must first email them with a list of what you want including your full address. they will then respond with a qoute which will include shipping costs. assuming you still wish to buy the firearm, you can either pay over the phone or via a certified check threw the mail. heres where is gets interesting, Loyalist Arms does not keep a stock of finished firearms. instead they keep a stock of indian made "kits" or guns that are about 80% complete. upon ordering the firearm they will begin to assemble your gun. according to them this is also the time when they perform quallity control and proof the firearm. according to them this process will take 2-3 weeks.

notes: 1. shipping to WA state is very expensive! ($82.00). 2. they do indeed market these guns as being made for shooting projectiles. 3. my order was for a musket, bayonet, and 6 american chert flints. 4. they include a frizzen stall and flash protector for free with a musket order. 5. Loyalist Arms warranties its firearms. 6 months for all moving parts and 1 year for the springs.

i will cover initial inspection when the firearm shows up (4-6 weeks).

i hope this review will be usefull to someone.
-Matt

 

[Ike Godsey]

interesting. i wonder how much shipping cost to germany will be...

 

[tiger13]

Yeah that is very expensive to ship. I am wondering if part of that cost is assembling the gun. I have dealt with Middlesex Village Trading Company twice in the purchase of an Indian Musket, the second time was to replace a stolen one, and both of mine I was very pleased with them. They functioned flawlessly. Yes they were not historically correct, but they were what I could afford and they worked fine and were very accurate.MVTC also guaranteed the locks for life as long as you took care of them and cleaned them, they would re harden the frizzens, repair springs etc. Good luck with your musket and looking forward to your review.

 

[matt denison]

shipping to WA state is very expensive! ($82.00

Not really. Not really at all. That gun is traveling the length of the continent. Consider shipping materials, insurance. It is reasonable when you think about it. I've shipped hundreds of muskets to every state except Hawaii and to a dozen forein countries. $82.00 doesn't sound out of line to me.

 

[Renegade Dan]

Of course we will need to see pics when the gun arrives. :thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

I applaud you for doing this as I often wonder myself :hatsoff:

Brits

 

[curator]

Matt85,

I bought a couple of the Charleville flintlock muskets from Loyalist Arms for the museum where I worked. They sent the locks separately so we were not exporting working firearms. Apparently that had more to do with Canadian law but was fine with me. The muskets have been in service for several years now with no problems. Actually we have had no problems with their frizzens needing re-hardening unlike the more expensive the Italian imports At the time we were working with a severely limited budget and were able to purchase two muskets from Loyalist Arms for less than one from Dixie Gun Works.

As the museum's armorer, I carefully disassembled and inspected these guns and proofed them myself just to be sure they were safe with projectiles. My proof load wad 180 grains of FFg black powder and two patched .662 round balls. Both guns were subjected to five proof loads then disassembled and inspected for cracks (magnaflux), bulges, or any other damage. All came through this abuse just fine. They are now mostly used for reenactments with blank charges but occasionally get some use with "ball" loads at one of the annual reenactor rendezvous.

 

[Matt85]

i didnt say they ripping me off for shipping, i just said it was expensive. 50 pound crates of modern ammo cost half that much to ship from the tip of Florida state to Washington state (almost the same distance). im sure the price has something to do with crossing the canadian border and the length of the package. i was prepared to pay around $40 for shipping, $80+ caught me off gaurd.

thats good to hear curater, i suspected that not all india guns were created equal.

i decided to go with a Loyalist Arms 1768 because the Pedersoli 1766 isnt even close to HC. at least from a distance the LA 1768 looks HC. when compared to an original the pedersoli 1766 isnt even close. it has glaring faults such as a steel front sight, a cone shaped ramrod, a improperly shaped stock. also according to their website the Pedersoli is almost a full pound heavier.

-Matt

 

[buzz]

I've been looking at MTVC and loyalist for year have chatted via email with both but have shyed away from them for one reason or another usualy i find something else i dont have to pay so much shipping on or close enouf to get it myself
i send a long rifle from the west coast to ohio for $60 so shipping sound fair to me as well
I hope to hear more myself as there are two guns i realy like have they both carrry

 

[pargent]

It's to do with the length of the item beeing shipped .Apparently in the modern world nothing is long anymore.

 

[Matt85]

i sent an email to Loyalist Arms on friday asking them if they would fit the bayonet while they were assembling the rifle.

i just got an email back saying that if you buy a bayonet with your musket they fit the bayonet to the gun durring the assembley process.

this is very helpfull since most places that sell guns leave the bayonet fitting up to you.

-Matt

 

[trettie]

I purchased an Jacobean (English) Lock musket from Loyalist about 4 years ago. Dealing with Loyalist was always easy and pleasant. When it first arrived, I found the trigger pull to be rather stiff, but with a little adjustment I was able to ease down to a more comfortable pull. I do suggest carefully inspecting the stock; mine had a flaw near the fore end that eventually cracked. I was able to fix it, but I shouldn't have had to with a piece that new. Overall, I've been pleased, and have had no more problems with it than I have with custom-built pieces.

 

[Black Jack]

This is going to be a most interesting post as I am very interested in a factual, objective review of the Indian guns and these two importers/sellers. We get a lot of comments regarding them that seem to be written with a rather obvious bias ny someone who has a axe to grind with any guns that are not USA produced customs that are 100% HC/PC in every respect. I myself do admire the generally historic appearance of these types of weapons, but really don't care about those tiny details apparent only to a select few that have really studied them and insist on adherance to complete authenticity. Please follow through with your evaluation so people like myself can have an informed opinion. Oh yes, and of course the more pictures the better!

 

[Musketeer]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, Matt. :hatsoff:

 

[Alden]

BlackJack;
I agree at least with regard to one particular aspect: there are some wonderful examples of blackpowder arms out there that are affordable. Some are better then others, believe me I've seen some dogs, but India raised the bar with options.

I have usually avoided them because the quality strives to be average, but, I would not write them off completely and Loyalist (I know) and that place in Vermont seem to have some decent stuff indeed. I bought a Hand Mortar from our friend at Veteran's -- I needed it, have absolutely no complaints about it, and wasn't going to go have one custom made. Then again, although I have the right russet sling on it, the appropriate early Grenadier's match case as well as faux grenadoes and short halberd I'm also never going to fire a baseball-sized anything from it, so...

 

[Matt85]

it should be noted that Loyalist Arms is in Canada and charges in CDN. i took a loss on our current exchange rate as the Canadian dollar is worth more then ours at the moment. the qoute Loyalist Arms gives is incorrect. (i ended up paying about $30 more then i was qouted at)

at this moment the exchange rate is about $1.00 CDN = $1.01 USD (according to a couple googled exchange rate calculators).

this is not exactly their fault as i should have checked the current exchange rate rather then just relying on them to know.

-matt

 

[Black Jack]

Alden,
I have nothing but admiration for anyone who buys a hand mortar! :bow:

 

[Alden]

Thanks, but hey, I can't always serve my Coehorn Mortar that fires the same sized grenadoe! LOL

 

[Alden]

...in foreground.

 

[buzz]

well i can tell you i buy an indian gun from a traditions anyday
as i just saw two side byside at a sale althoughthe caliber was different i was looking at the quaity in doing my checking the indian gun sold