Lubing a conical?

[jtmattison]

I have two black powder books written by Sam Fadala.
In both he writes about lubing ONLY the base of a conical such as a Maxi-ball for best accuracy.
He does not say whether to use a wad over the powder or not.
Wouldn't the lube ruin the powder if it was seated directly on the charge without a wad?
Does anyone lube just the base of their conicals and shoot without a wad?
Looking for some insight here.

Huntin

 

[Stumpkiller]

Hmmmmm? :hmm: I lube the sides and keep as much off the base as possible. I use a fiber wad over the powder, as much to keep it dry as to keep the solid base from being "peened" by the powder on firing (I gleaned that from B.P. cartridge shooters who claim flat base bullets suffer from contact with the powder).

I suppose lubing the bottom might scatter the lube on firing and keep the fouling soft, but it won't help on loading to smear a layer down. Can't argue that he's shot a lot more conicals that I have. I wouldn't want it sitting directly on MY powder.

 

[roundball]

LUBE ON POWDER
Probably depends on the lube...ie: Natural Lube 1000 has no negative effect on powder. I lube .45cal TC Maxi-Hunters so they're plastered everywhere, and I do put an oxyoke wonderwad down on the powder first, but only as a firewall to protect the lead, not to keep the lube off the powder.

NO LUBE ON SIDES OF CONICALS
If lube on the sides of a conical came off in some sort of unbalaced way as the conical was moving up the bore, I suppose in theory it could be claimed that accuracy might be affected if that were the only factor.

But I'd think that rifle twist rotation would stabilize the conical so much it would be impossible to actually measure any accuracy difference and state definitively that it was caused by a grain or so less lube on one side of a conical compared to the other, etc...particularly when you consider that we're shooting muzzleloaders in the first place, measuring powder with a teaspoon, variations in loading, compression, fouling, etc, etc.

::

 

[musketman]

Wouldn't the lube ruin the powder if it was seated directly on the charge without a wad?

Maybe not...
:imo:

But, when the rear of the charge is ignited, the maxiball moves up the barrel dragging black powder with it that is stuck to the lube.

Within a few microseconds, the rest of the powder is consumed as the bullet is speeding out the bore...

Would this clump of stuck powder finally igniting provide a secondary "PUSH" to the base of the bullet?

Could this effect your point of aim?

 

[RussB]

Wouldn't the lube ruin the powder if it was seated directly on the charge without a wad?

Maybe not...
:imo:

But, when the rear of the charge is ignited, the maxiball moves up the barrel dragging black powder with it that is stuck to the lube.

Within a few microseconds, the rest of the powder is consumed as the bullet is speeding out the bore...

Would this clump of stuck powder finally igniting provide a secondary "PUSH" to the base of the bullet?

Could this effect your point of aim?

Hey guys, Good topic! And, one I have found little agreement on.
My own view is you should bever use a wad when using a HB conical. If that wad becomes "stuck" in the base you will get erratic bullet behavior. There are as many different lubes as there are shooters...each a bit better than the other, and HB conicals seem to be the conical of choice for the average traditional hunter / shooter. However the Lee REAL seems to be gaining favor with a lot of shooters and hunters.
Long range ML shooting is whole "nother" ball game.
Now, having said all that, I will say I have shot conicals with lube only in the base with no ill effects that I was smart enough to see. I'm sure it negates a small amount of powder but when working up the load for "base only" lube it doesn't seem to matter, once your zero is established. It also appears that lube in the base MAY prevent blowing out the skirt...the number one problem with HB conicals.
The use of a wad under a solid base conical, which obivously must be lubed on the side, seems once again to protect the base of the bullet, and is highly recommended.
I can not explain how a HB conical, lubed only in the base, does not give leading in the barrel....perhaps enough "blows by" occurs to provide lubrication...I dunnno. I do know I have recovered HB minies, base lubed, that showed no powder residue, no lube in the base, and no lube on the sides. But it seems to work.
I suspect this controversy to continue for sometime before "proof" can be provided as to which method is truly best.
I suggest every shooter try both, work up their best load for both, and made a decision based on their own observations.
:m2c:

Russ

 

[gmww]

Here is what I've found to work with the New gun I got a couple of weeks ago. I have been trying daily to find a good load for it.

It likes the LEE Minie Bullet which is undersized and has a hollow base. It shoots the most accurately if I only lube the base. A (VEG) wad does not seem to affect its accuracy. If I lube the sides and base accuracy deminishes. Same is true if I just lube the side and not the base. The only added difference is I've Teflon taped the sides to get the bullet to stay put since it is under sized by a smidge.

I've noticed that without the wad I see streamers of burning powder when the bullet leaves the barrel. I don't see it with wads. I shoot without the wads more often than not. The lube is the Bore butter.

The LEE REAL bullet works so so but I've not had time to tinker too much with that bullet since I'm in a hurry to get it ready for next weeks hunt. REAL has a solid base. For the Hornady Great plains bullet. It shows promise and has dry crusty lube on the sides and in the cavity.

When I say accuracy, I mean 1 1/2 to 2 inches at 75 yards and 2 inches to 3 inches at 100 yards. At 50 yards they are touching each other. I hope to be experimenting with the oversized Lee Minie bullet after I get back so I don't have to use the teflon tape. :results:

 

[cayugad]

The old rule of thumb I go by that I read in a muzzleblast magazine hundreds of years ago it seems... :: You never use a wad on a hollow based conical, but you wad a flat based.

When it comes to lubing the sides and base of a conical, I do lube in the hollow of a hollow based concial. My theory is the powder igniting will push that lube upward into the bullet and cause the skirt to expand better. I also lube the sides of a conical if they do not come pre lubed. The only difference is I do not lube them heavy like I have seen some people do. If I happen to fill the ribs thats all right otherwise, I just smear them over good and load.

 

[jaybeach]

Speaking of lubed conicals: (1) Do the TC maxi-balls and maxi-hunters load more easily since they're already lubed? By easier, I mean easier than a plastic sabot (which I have read should never be lubed). (2) Does the presence of Bore Butter on conicals make any difference on how often one needs to swab the bore? (assume the use of Pyrodex, not 777)
Thanks

 

[Rat]

I've never put lube inside the base of a skirted minnie, as it just seems like it would contaminate the powder, but I do have one that shoots best with only a tiny bit of lube in the bottom lube groove. There does seem to be a tendency for people to over-lube minnie balls. But even shooting the above-mentioned minnie with NO lube, I don't see any leading.

Rat