lubing patches only on one side

[KarlSchrader]

Lubrication of patches

Here is another one of those tricky problems one encounters shooting muzzleloading guns (flintlocks or perussion):
Shooting mostly round ball because I had a Maxiball move forward once while hunting, I slipped and the gun got jarred. Since I was aware of the danger of a gap between the powder and bullet, I checked with the ramrod and sure enough the Maxiball had moved forward. So, since that time, I only shoot roundballs.
Now, it is generally accepted that one lubricates the patch thoroughly, but come to think of it, when the gun fires there is a tremendous push against the ball/patch combination and if the patch is lubricated through and through, there must be some slippage beetween the ball and the patch, because the patch is greasy and slippery where it makes contact with the ball. One would think that this slippage could potentially have an effect on accuracy ?? To check this out, I lubricated the patch only on one side where it makes contact with the barrel with borebutter and sure enough accuracy improved. Not by much but it was noticeable.
Anybody ever tried this?

 

[musketman]

This would only work with a paste type of lube, liquid lubes will soak through to get both sides of the patch wet reguardless of what side you put it on...

I thought a wet cloth will grip better than a dry one, mostly because it conforms to the shape of the projectile exceeding easier than a dry, stiff patch...

 

[riarcher]

Hmmm, :shocking:
I tear my tickin' into 1 3/4 strips, butter one side (moderately), rollem up, and pop em' in the oven at 175 deg. for and hour inside a baggie. In use the lube is pretty unifomed throughout, and the tick stays rolled really well.
Anyways, (I maybe wrong, but) I would think the ball having more resistance (weight) that the presure would try and blow the patch by the ball, thus keeping it tight to the ball. ::
I was always more concerned with uniform friction or resistance against the charge to maintain accuacy.
I do know that heavy vs. light lubing effects POI with me.
Almost like tight vs. loose, heavy vs. light.
Consistancy (like in archery) is the key? :redface:

 

[riarcher]

PS;
Lubing one side vs. both sides?
Would that be like adding twice the lube to the same patch?
And the charge pushing the lube to the bore (hydraulic reaction and blow-by)?
Over lubing my patch makes my groups pretty sad. The best groups are with the old free spit patch. I think because it's consistant, non-lubricating, and flame retardant. (maybe). ::

 

[Ohio Joe]

No, I haven't tried this one side lubing... I would think that eventually the lube would absorb through the patch making contact with the ball, regardless... I will give this a try however and see what kind of results I get... Target shooting where the muzzleloader is only charged for a short time may be this idea's application... Always willing to try new techniques, thanks...

 

[roundball]

If I had a lubed patched ball situation where the ball was able to rotate within the lubed patch, I'd be rethinking the fit and tightness of the particular sized ball & patch combo I was using, not the lube, and get a correct fitting size combination for the caliber/bore I was using.

I use a ball with prelubed .018" pillow ticking and it's a tight combination, and have to put some real mojo on the ramrod to get it down & seated...accuracy is excellent

 

There's this not insignificant element called obturation that occurs upon ignition. The ball is foreshortened and presses the patch into rifling even more than occurs upon loading and seating the ball. Yes, the patch grips the ball and yes, the patch assists in imparting spin to the ball and to one degree or another seals the bore, however, obturation is a fact. I don't believe a proper fitting ball and patch combination could be separated upon firing if one were so inclined to try. Retrieved, blown patches still indicate that the patch maintained contact with the ball.

I'm rather surprised to hear that groups improved, if even a little, by lubing only one side of the patch. I don't saturate mine with grease type lubes but I assuredly work the lube well into the patch. Even if saturated I would think that the loading process would expell any excess lube, provided one has proper ball and patch combination to begin with. I don't know what effect the excess lube at the bottom of the ball or on top in the remaining patch would have on accuracy but from your test there is evidently some effect. Interesting....keep us informed! Ohio Joe....lemme know how your try at this goes.

Vic

 

[musketman]

I don't believe a proper fitting ball and patch combination could be separated upon firing if one were so inclined to try. Retrieved, blown patches still indicate that the patch maintained contact with the ball.

Here are some common patch conditions...

IMO, if a patch slips, it's because the fit is impropper or it was loaded wrong to begin with...

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, anything is possible...

 

[tg]

Next time you clean your rifle make note of the rotation of the rod as you go up and down the bore with wet and dry patches, this will give some indication of any slippage twixt jag and patch, though speed and pressure are not present as in a fired load.

 

[buckknife]

Jager perhaps the accuracy improved because you only had half the lube on the patch?When the ball was rammed down the barrel the patch would have compressed sending the lube threw the patch most likely.Less lube is the key to better groups i belive.A consistantly light lubed patch with just enough to get the job done an no more will improve groups it seems.
Its not hard to consistanly lube patches but it is hard to consistanly lube patches with not a drop more of lube than is absoalutly nesecary.
If anyone is a hard core traditional shooter and want to do it just like it was done back then with the same lubes you do it the best you can an go from there.
If you arnt an just want to shoot the best groups you can possible get out of a rifle then the way to go is Dutch.
a old he-coon here abouts turned me on to this way of shooten.It is hands down the most uniformed way of doing it for the best possible groups that can be abtained from a frontstuffer.
Even when i do try a different lube i still apply the dutch teachings to it.This is the off season an time to experyment with different lubes.So far i have found nuthin that is consistanly as accurate as the Dutch teachings with water soulable oil and the dry patch system.
Its the best 15 bucks i ever spent.
Now before anyone gets in a twist about their lube an tecniques save your breath for this is just a option that can be explored.I think you will find its a good option when you get it down. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[buckknife]

To show how versitle this water soluable oil dry patch method is i went out to day an shot with no cleanen between shots with real decent accracy.Was shooten the 36,did a 40gr fouler shot,then blew hard down the barrel an reloaded.Did 35 shots this way with no swaben an had good results.Had to let the barrel cool a little after 6 shots er so for it was hot out there.Changed the target an had a smoke an went back to it.No hang fires or nipple picken.
What is good about this lube is you can control the amount of lube.I was shooten a 7to1 mix an i think i could take it to 8to1 an get by.
Whats real good about the water soluable oil is that it is.It cleans up easy with a moose milk water flush in a pale.Thats a squirt of nappa oil an a squirt of pinsol.
Here lately after clean up and dry patch i have been using preston non clorinated brake cleaner down the bore to see just how the type of lube i used sticks in the pores of the metal.Not much with the nappa lube,jojoba oil on the other hand was a bunch.It The jojoba oil is really a liquid wax,slick stuff but really stays in the barrel because it aint water soulable.Darn neart like beeswax lubes.
So the nappa dry patch can be shot either way,that is if your a swabber or not it works and cleans out of the barrel at the end of the day good.
I havnt tried the ballisol out but seeing how it is a hygenated mineral oil,food grade though,nappas not but the results would be about the same as a patch lube probably.
I wouldnt use the nappa as a bore preserver rust preventer but for a lube its good.a pint bottle will go a very very long ways an its cheap.

 

[DanWalker]

Very interesting. I personally only lube my patches on the side that engages the rifling. I use pillow ticking and TC Bore Butter and pre-cut/pre-lube a bunch of patches. In point of fact, the Bore Butter actually soaks through to the inside pretty well, so I don't honestly think it makes much difference. However, it is definitely food for thought - maybe I'll do like some others and put the pre-lubed patches in the micro or oven and let the lube be evenly distributed through the patches, then see what happens!

 

[buckknife]

emanon if you ever see a dry patch done the dutch way you wouldnt even think there is lube on them.They look an feel dry,untill you give them a little squeeze between the fingers and see an feel the lube is there.Very little lube but enough to work.
When i shot the jojoba oil the other day i soaked em good then i stacked the precuts ontop each other an placed a wood backing on each side of the stack of patches an put em in a vise an squeezed every drop of oil i could out of them with the vise as tight as i could get it.Really it was a C clam but you get the pitcure.With the patches in the vise i wiped the excess lube off around the outside of em.When you take em out of the vise they are squeezed into a solid plug.Peel them off an see how little lube is on them.Not much and it is close to the dutch dry patch in lube consistancy and the amount of lube on each patch.Try it out sometime.Once a person has the load and patch and ball figuared out for there gun there just aint much more to play with besides the lube.This way i have a ascuse to go shoot.Keeps me from doin them other things the wife thinks we could be doin like goen to town an spenden money on more non frontstuffer junk. ::

 

[Stumpkiller]

I lube only the barrel side of the patch. Whether using Natural Lube or a thicker grease lube I drag the patch through the lube with my thumb and plop it over the barrel or the loading block and then set the ball on top.

With liquid lube you can't help but get through & through. And, as noted before, the pressure of loading and firing forces the lube throughout the patch fibers.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Jager,,, I got out this last Tuesday evening to give the one side lubed patch a try and I really didn't see a difference in results... That's not important however... What is, is that you found something that works for you and shared it with us... Thank you...