lyman .54 flintlock question

[stoneview]

G'day,
I am new to black powder and have a lot to learn. I have a Lyman Deer Stalker ( I know that it isn't an orthentic style but it is my first BP rifle) in .54 Flintlock. I shoot patched balls and want to hunt with it. I was hoping that someone will be familliar with this rifle and could explain how to tune the lock. sometimes there is no hang time and others there is just a flash. The weather is dry here and i am using ffff priming powder and 60gn ff behind a patched ball. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cheers, Jonno

 

[ebiggs1]

Never shot one but if it is similar to the GPR which I suspect it is, you need to get an aftermarket touch hole liner. Or, at the very least drill the one you have to 5/64th. This will eliminate most of the ignition issues. There is more you can do....................................if you want too. Let me know.

 

[rawhide]

how much powder are you putting in the pan? I noticed with my blue ridge. it like to be around 1/4 full is all. if I overload it I get lots of flash in the pan or realy slow lock time. (time hammer falls then gun go boom.) mite try that. or hear where I live it's very humid. right now it's the rainy season. I have to wipe the pan and fizzen almost every shot plus pick the vent hole. I'd try this stuff first.

 

[rancher]

I drilled the touch hole out to 5/64" on my Lyman lock and it has been very reliable. Good luck with your gun.

 

[stoneview]

thanks Jayhawk, I will get the touch hole drilled out. and yes I would like to know what else I could do.

 

[stoneview]

The prime that i am using is about a quater of the pan, and i wipe it clean first. I also put a feather in the touch hole when loading. the flint is wrapped in leather, but i have been reading that i should change that to lead. if it is sharp then there is ususlly good flash. the main charge is not always forthcomming though. any thoughts on flint placement, spring tension, I am not sure, just wanting to get the best out of it.

 

[ebiggs1]

You need to drill, man. :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

The easiest fix is just a piece of thick leather under the flint. You do NOT need lead as a wrap and I suggest you not use it and go with leather.

A better fix is a TC “new” style cock.

And best is a L&R replacement lock. :wink:

This is what you want. See how the sparks go into the pan? :thumbsup:

The prime that i am using is about a quater of the pan, and i wipe it clean first.

More prime is better than less prime. How much is that? I don't know, you will have to try but error on too much rather than too little.

I also put a feather in the touch hole when loading.

Stop ding this.

the flint is wrapped in leather, but i have been reading that i should change that to lead.

Stay with leather. Don't change to lead. :nono:

if it is sharp then there is ususlly good flash. the main charge is not always forthcomming though.

This is how I do the touch hole liners.

any thoughts on flint placement, spring tension, I am not sure, just wanting to get the best out of it.

If you are staying with the Lyman lock leave the rest as is. Let it alone. Notice the flint placement in the photos. :thumbsup:

 

[stoneview]

thanks for your help. could you also explain your loading proceedure. I have been told to put a feather quill or toothpick in the touch hole when loading so that the main charge doesn't obstruct the touch hole.then remove it and prime and shoot. thanks for the picks of the lock. i will stick with the lyman lock at this stage, and adjust the flint to the position you have shown.
cheers, jonno

 

[Zonie]

Well, actually, you want the main charge to "obstruct" the touch hole.

When it does, new powder is right up close to the flame in the pan so there is a better chance that it will ignite.


Another thing.
Many of the modern factory made flintlocks use a breech that is very similar to the percussion guns and utilize a passageway between the bore and the touch hole.
This passage is much smaller than the bore and can restrict the flow of new powder to the touch hole.

If the touch hole is plugged, there is no reason for the new powder to travel down thru this passage.
If the touch hole is open the new powder will be blown back thru the passage until it is stopped by the orifice placing it in just the right place.

As the others have mentioned, enlarging the touch hole will almost always speed up and improve reliability.

You will read about people "picking the vent" after ramming the ball and prior to priming the pan.

Not everyone does this but those who do feel that if there is any loose fouling that has been blown back into the touch hole, it will clear it out.

Picking the touch hole will also open a slightly conical hole in the powder charge just inside the touchhole which many people feel will give more surface area of new powder thus a greater chance of some of it igniting.

Once one or two granules ignite the rest follow almost instantly.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Some commercial flintlocks have a "Powder chamber" in the breech of the barrel, and a channel leading from this chamber to the side of the barrel where the vent hole is exposed to the flash pan of the lock. In these kinds of gun, you have to have powder right next to the TH( vent) for best ignition.

With Tradition Flintlock rifles, with flat-faced Breech plugs, and NO POWDER CAVITIES, the hole to the side of the barrel is very short in length. A TH LINER, like the Chamber' White lightning helps ignition two ways:

a. It has a parabolic Curve to the sides of the inside opening of the TH, which causes Gases to push back AGAINST escaping gases as pressure rises, during ignition of the main powder charge, causing the pressure and heat in the barrel to rise even faster, burning the powder more efficiently, and faster.

b. the parabolic curve allows a vent pick( TH PICK) to be used to open a hole in the main powder charge, WHILE LEAVING some powder around the INSIDE of the liner for quick ignition. The hole in the powder then allows heat to ignite even more granules of powder in the barrel, speeding ignition of the main charge.

Is the parabolic Curve better than a straight "inside cone"? The answer lies in what the parabolic cone can do that a straight sided cone can't. A straight sided cone( think of a tipi turned on its side) can funnel smoke( gases) out the hole compressing the gases to move faster as the cone narrows.

The parabolic cone does this, also, but the curved surface pushes some of the gas against the following gases, slowing or stopping some of the gas from escaping. The slowing ( this all happens in milliseconds) causes a rise in both pressure and temperature inside the barrel as the main powder charge ignites, speeding ignition, and more completely burning the granules before the projectile leaves the barrel. As the pressure drops, more gas can now escape from the TH( vent), and does, but with the gases reflected back by the parabolic cone surfaces continuing to hold back some of those gases. Some say there is a small increase in MV when the parabolic liner is used, but,IMHO, it would be so small that it would be difficult to isolate from other factors that affect MV.

Outside countersinking simply moves a bit of powder closer to the inside of the barrel. But, with the space between the barrel and pan being what it is, in any given gun, I don't really want to be putting any priming powder where it has to straddle a crack that might allow "fines" to slip down behind my lock into the lock mortise where ignition might damage my gunstock and lock.

To each his own, however. :shocked2: :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[ebiggs1]

Outside countersinking simply moves a bit of powder closer to the inside of the barrel. But, with the space between the barrel and pan being what it is, in any given gun, I don't really want to be putting any priming powder where it has to straddle a crack that might allow "fines" to slip down behind my lock into the lock mortise where ignition might damage my gunstock and lock

What?...in the world are you talking about?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am talking about the "fines" that always seem to work their way down the inside of my lock plate, under the flash pan, no matter how close the fit is between the lock plate and my barrel. I clean some of this " dust" off after every shooting session, when I remove the lock plate, check all the screws and parts for wear, and proper setting, clean out any debris or "dust', and re-oil the internal parts before re-installing the lock in my stock.

Because of my own care in tuning my lock, my lock plate fits are substantially better( ie. closer) than what I observe in most guns, and particularly in commercially made guns. Once in awhile I see a lock that is well fit against the barrel, and I usually tell the owner how lucky he is.

I have used 4Fg powder almost exclusively for my priming powder in my flintlocks, simply because I bought a full 1 lb. can of it, and it seems to take forever to work my way through it. However, I am changing over to using 3Fg for priming powder when hunting, simply to reduce the chance of fines being in the powder, and working down the crack between the lock plate and the barrel.

From the pictures you have shown us of your locks, you apparently put priming powder high enough in the pan so that you can put some of the powder on the lower portions of your countersink bevels.( 5 to 7 o'clock plane). To do that, you have powder straddling the crack between the lockplate and the barrel. If you are using 4F powder ot prime( Nubb B is finer, and therefore potentially worse), you increase the chance that "fines" -- the dust from broken granules-- can and will work down that crack and lodge between your inside lockplate and the stock under your barrel's breech.

That is what I am talking about.

If your guns are made with a very tight fit between your lock plate and the barrel where the flash pan is located, you obviously can ignore my concerns. If you don't find dust on the inside of your lockplate after a shooting session, or worse, scorch marks on the inside of the plate from where the fines burned when the gun fired, you don't have to worry about this. :surrender: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[ebiggs1]

If you don't find dust on the inside of your lockplate after a shooting session, or worse, scorch marks on the inside of the plate from where the fines burned when the gun fired, you don't have to worry about this.

I must say I have never noticed this situation. Ever! Maybe I should watch more closely! :hmm:
But I don't see how coneing the touch hole would make that situation worse? Coned or unconed has nothing to do with where the powder is, as you can lay it against the “crack” in either case, if you wanted too.

 

[jerrywh]

If powder leaks down between the barrel and the lock there is a space there. That is an absolute fact. You can't pour powder throgh a solid. A space there idicates faultu construction.