Lyman GPR and Trade rifles?

[koauke]

I recently had the opportunity to shoot a T/C Hawken rifle and I'm looking at getting into black powder shooting. I am looking at the Lyman GPR and Trade rifles. Does anyone who has the trade rifle miss the set trigger? It is definitely cheaper than the GPR.

How do they handle? It looks like the GPR has more drop to the stock. I might be a little concerned about that as I would have no way of handling the rifles before purchase. Is the overall fit and finish comparable between the two? I've been to a few local gun shops and no one carries these around here.

I am within driving distance of a Cabelas, however the pedersoli traditional hawkens rifles they are now carrying don't have a traditional stock shape around the lock area which looks odd to me.

Anyhow, any suggestions/help you can give would be appreciated.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

The Lyman Trade Rifle is very similar to the Thompson Center Hawken except for the single trigger and lack of an adjustable rear sight.

That makes its weight and balance comparable.

The Lyman Great Plains Rifle is longer and heavier than the TC Hawken or the Trade Rifle.
The butt plate has a deeper curve than the Trade Rifle.
This deeper curve is meant to be shot "off the arm" rather than being tucked into the shoulder like a modern gun.
It doesn't take much to move it out just a bit to position it.

I think the greater "drop" of the GPR's butt is actually a goodness.
It brings the line of sight to the shooters eye rather than making him bend his head and neck down to see the sights.

Although the increased drop will also cause the muzzle to rise a bit more than the Trade Rifle, the increased weight of the gun and its longer barrel tends to nullify this effect.

IMO, both Lyman products are well made guns and they are well worth owning. They are made in Italy, the largest producer of muzzleloading guns in the world.

Another rifle on the market that is similar to the Trade Gun is the Traditions Hawken Rifle.
This Spanish made TC copy is very similar to the Lyman Trade gun except it has double set triggers and an adjustable rear sight.

I know your just getting into this but as a side note, if you ever plan on doing any formal shooting matches, many of them do not allow adjustable sights.

 

[galamb]

My first BP rifle was a Lyman Trade rifle - should have never got rid of it but graduated to custom rifles.

There is a "cool factor" to double set triggers and once used to them a lot of guys/gals like them.

I can give or take them. If I'm building a rifle representative to a specific builder and they used DST's, then that's what the rifle gets.

But if examples of both exist OR they tended to use a single trigger I climb right on board with that.

There is a whole lot less chance of a trigger issue when using a single, simple trigger.

No, you can't set it (the simple ones) and then get a hair trigger release - but on the other hand, when hunting with gloved hands you are unlikely to get a "bang - ooops" when you trip a set trigger.

Properly pinned a single trigger is light enough for most every shooters "taste" and for all but the most particular target shooters, is "really" all you need.

How many of your Center fire rifles have DST's???

 

[hanshi]

While I've owned a T/C Hawken I've never owned a Lyman GPR. Still, I like the heft and feel of the Lyman. It all boils down to which feel better when you shoulder them. Price may also be an issue as well as availability.

 

[koauke]

Thank you for the responses and information, they are very helpful. When choosing between the .50 or .54 caliber do you have a preference?

I don't really hunt and so would only be using this at the range. I gather that there is more available for .50 caliber in terms of supplies/accessories, does this matter so much for a range gun?

 

[longcruise]

The set trigger on the TC is a pretty good trigger. IMO, the GPR set trigger is horrible! I own two and have built five. They are ok when fired set but near useless when employed unset. For the two that I own, am in the process of making single triggers for themed.

 

[Artificer]

The first BP rifle I bought was on Boot Camp leave in January 1972 and it was a .50 cal. TC Hawken. (They were only available in .45 and .50 calibers in those days if memory serves correctly.) It was a good accurate rifle and the only reason I traded it off was to get a more authentic rifle.

I have shot the Lyman GPR's and I do not care for the added curve in the buttplate that makes you put the rifle on the arm. I have shot maybe 5 or 6 original rifles like that and could not shoot well with any of them. However, that is a personal preference and I have seen other folks shoot great with such a curved buttplate.

There is plenty of equipment and accessories available for .54 cal. guns, but if you are mainly going to shoot at targets, the .50 cal. will require less lead to shoot, though not much less. Personally for the way you are going to use it, I would suggest the .50 cal.

Gus

 

[Zonie]

The .490 diameter roundballs for the .50 caliber usually come in boxes of 100.

The .530 diameter roundballs for the .54 caliber often come in boxes of 50 for about the same price.

The powder charges used in either caliber over lap a great deal but I usually use a 60 grain powder charge for target shooting a .50 caliber and a 80 grain powder charge for a .54.

That difference in powder load amounts to about 29 more shots per pound of powder for the .50 if I'm shooting real black powder and about 37 more shots if I'm using Pyrodex. (Pyrodex has more volume per pound so it gives more shots per pound.
Powder charges are measured by volume even though we talk about them as being a weight of powder.)

 

[Kapow]

That was a pretty good answer! He came to the right place. If you said hunting I would ask how tall you are and what kind of build? Also how much walking? I have the GPR and I love it but it can get a bit heavy at the end of the day/week so I am starting to notice the Lyman trade rifle more. Also it gives you the option of firing maxis as it has a faster twist at 1:48.

For range and target work though I think you can't do better than a Lyman GPR in .50cal and think about putting Davis deer slayer triggers in it. That will give you a very accurate rifle.

I also noticed a short Hawken on Pedersoli's website. Are they a new addition to their line up. Possibly the one that Cabelas is selling?

You are really spoilt for choice and the beauty of that is you can't go wrong because they are all excellent. Maybe you need to find the one that fits you best and run with it. Hope you enjoy your journey...

 

[Lonegun1894]

My first was a CVA St. Louis hawken, then a TC hawken, and 3 GPRs. I still have the CVA just because it is the rifle I practice my gunsmithing skills (what little I have) on, and for sentimental value, and the 3 GPRs. The TC didn't offer anything that the CVA couldn't do, but the GPRs are just more comfortable to shoot. If at all possible, at least shoulder both the Trade Rifle/CVA hawken/TC hawken, and the GPR, because while they are all good rifles, they feel different and one type is sure to feel more comfortable to you than the other. As for the caliber, either is fine for target shooting, but the .50 will be slightly more nose-heavy than a .54 of the same model rifle, which may be an advantage in how the rifle hangs on target. However, the .54 will be slightly lighter with a center of balance slightly more centered, which you may prefer. If you're sure you don't want to hunt, the .50 uses slightly less lead, and may use slightly less powder, depending on your load. However, if you think you may someday want to hunt with it, I would recommend the .54 due to the slightly lighter weight and heavier RB which is nice to have when hunting game. Whatever you choose, go with what you like. For example, in my case, that is a .54 GPR with a flintlock for ignition rather than a caplock, but my GPRs are3 all flint, one .54 rifled, one .54 smoothbore, and one .50 rifled. So I'm prejudiced.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hello Koauke,
Your quest is a challenge.
Being your first BP rifle, and they are not getting any cheaper, make sure that you get a keeper.
Be sure what type of shooting you are certain that you want to do.
Different guns different purposes.
Some people don't care, as long as it goes "boom" it is good enough!
A Kentucky long rifle is a joy to appreciate, but it is entirely different than a plains rifle.
Make sure you can handle it for some time before you lay your cash down.
Seeing you are from Ca. that also may be of concern, with that state's view on lead bullets.
I see some of the posters here have been using non lead balls in their guns.
Will that be an issue with you and your quest?
Yeah, I know questions, questions........?
Sorry for the confusion!
But I really do hope this helps.
Fred

 

[newtewsmoke]

...for what you are planning to do, get the lyman GPR in .50, I don't think you'll ever regret it! If you decide you can't get along with it, they are popular enuff you shouldn't have any problem selling it. The problem is...buying one sight unseen thru the mail, lymans QC is horrible!! Verify a return/exchange policy before buying and if possible at least talk on the phone with the seller and ask them alot of questions before buying.

 

[galamb]

50 or 54?

What will you hunt? Where will you get your supplies??

You can probably get everything you need "off the shelf" for a 50 cal from Walmart - patches, balls, jags etc - a 54 might be tougher to outfit unless you are close to a real muzzle loading shop (or don't mind paying for shipping and waiting).

Yes a 54 has more "thump" regardless of what you put down the spout (round ball or conical).

I have a 50 that I use exclusively for hunting "unfamiliar" areas. It gets fed 80 grains of FFF under a Hornady Pennsylvania Conical - which gives the same "thump" as a 54 roundball.

The rest of my "deer" hunting is done with a 40 cal (which is legal in my area).

If you are hunting game larger than deer I don't see a great advantage to shooting the 54 over the 50 - may as well go up to a 58 or 62 if you are shooting at something that "can eat you" or weighs somewhat over 1000 pounds.

All in all I see absolutely no reason to choose a 54 over a 50 from any practical application purpose - but it really is a matter of personal choice.

Some guys love their 54's, I love my 40 and am going to really love my 38 when it gets done (right after my new 45) :grin:

 

[cynthialee]

Welcome to the forum.

If it was me....I'd get the Great Plains Rifle. Double set triggers are nice and the GPR is very easy to sell.

 

[Mr. S]

My wife got me a .54 flint, GPR in January for an early birthday present. I love it! It shoots great and looks good to me. I wanted it primarily for hunting Pennsylvania whitetail. But I do enjoy it a lot at the range too.

Rick

 

[William O.]

Thank you for the responses and information, they are very helpful. When choosing between the .50 or .54 caliber do you have a preference?

I don't really hunt and so would only be using this at the range. I gather that there is more available for .50 caliber in terms of supplies/accessories, does this matter so much for a range gun?

The .54 will have a slightly lighter barrel making the rifle less nose heavy. Whether that makes for a better balance is entirely up to the person shooting it but my preference as far as in the Lyman rifles is for the .54. I've owned several GPR's as well as Trade Rifles and I prefer the single trigger. In fact I had my .54 TR turned into a semi custom job with a cherry stock and a left hand L&R lock using all the other hardware. Since Lyman only makes right handed Trade Rifles the gunshots also changed the breech plug accordingly but it's an exceedingly accurate rifle.

 

[koauke]

Wow, all great responses. You've given me a great deal to think on. Hopefully I'll be able to pick one up in the next few months or so. I've always had a fascination with muzzle loaders and history that surrounds them. So being able to fire one was great, but of course now I need one!

 

[Swede50]

I have a Lyman GPR in 54 I built from a kit.
The trigger is terrible but the rifle it very accurate.
The lock & hammer did not line up since it was a pre-carved stock so I had to remove metal to make it work.
Both of my TC50 caliber one in a kit and the other from the factory fit and alien a whole lot better.

 

[daniel collums]

i like my percussion t/c hawken better than all the other rifles i have or have tried. the gpr and my pedersoli hawken are just to big and heavy for my body frame when shooting free hand. if i shoot using a rest they are alright. i do like the 54 a little better for hunting but the 50 has about the same killing power. if your just going to target shoot you will find the 50 or smaller will work just fine. just be sure if you buy a t/c that you get one thats in very good condition because about the only way to get parts is at a auction site.

 

[William O.]

Wow, all great responses. You've given me a great deal to think on. Hopefully I'll be able to pick one up in the next few months or so. I've always had a fascination with muzzle loaders and history that surrounds them. So being able to fire one was great, but of course now I need one!

A couple more observations on Lyman rifles. The Trade Rifle is built like a tank, very simple and with only one wedge key and hooked breech, quick to clean. Short barrel, easy to maneuver in the brush, all very handy. However, as far as any resemblance to any muzzle loaders in history, well, there isn't really. The GPR is also a fine rifle, very well built and can be very accurate. You'll get a little more velocity from it's longer barrel and it's a little slower to remove the barrel for cleaning but only by a few seconds. It has more historical resemblance than the TR does but if you really get into it you'll begin to see that it's only a very loose facsimile at best. Does that make either of them bad choices? Not by a long shot if you'll pardon the pun. Nor will it affect the accuracy of the two. The geometry of the stock might affect your ability to comfortably shoot one or the other, so the advice to shoulder them both and then decide is valuable indeed. Still. both stocks lend themselves very well to refinishing and customization within limits. There have been many examples of that posted here too. Whichever you choose, keep us informed.

Good luck and have fun!