Lyman GPR vs GPH

[jeffalight]

Hi Everyone,

Obviously, this is my first post on the forum. I am getting in to Black Powder with my son. Years ago I got out of regular rifle hunting and am focused on bow hunting. For me it is more about how than how many. Bow hunting with my son it going to be hard. He has a disability so it is hard to climb tree stands, tripods, etc. I have been reading about Muzzleloading and Black Powder and I really think it is something we will enjoy doing together.

Anyway, I am looking to purchase our first rifle. From what I can tell on the forum the Lyman GPR is a nice first purchase. I believe this rifle is available at Cabela’s for $579. My question is concerning the twist. The GPR is a 1-in-60. I believe there is another version, the GRH that is 1-in-48. What are the pros and cons of each? Which is best? What else should I consider?

There is a lot to read and research but I need to make a decision so I can make sure I can receive the rifle before Christmas.

Thanks for your help,
Jeff

 

[cynthialee]

welcome aboard!

the GPR is designed with round balls in mind

the GPH is designed to shoot conicals

Round balls loose energy quicker than conicals but in the ranges they are used in they are very deadly. Conicals allow for longer distance shots but they have a rainbow trajectory, have harder hiting recoil and cost more in terms of lead and powder in the long run.

If your son is having issues hunting the way you guys have been doing it then switching to BP rifles may be a good idea. But I am thinking if your boy is having these issues then perhaps a modern gun with a scope will allow him to shoot from a distance and rely less on a physicaly chalenging hunt that involves stalking, climbing and what not.

 

[necchi]

The basic difference is obviously the twist rate.

The GPR's slow twist will shoot the roundball better and accurately out too 110-115yrds with the open iron sights, Hunting accuracy might be streched a bit further but the Ball looses alot of energy beyond that point.

The GPH's fast twist (1-32) is better suited for the heavier elongated projectiles like the Minniball, Maxiball projectiles.

The toss up is added recoil with the heavier projectiles vrs a longer hunting range of perhaps 200yrds or slightly beyond. Again the limiting factor is the open sights.

I've personally mentored several hard core Bow hunters into the Muzzleloading hobbies and the added reach out to 100 has been very satisfactory for'm. (if your a true bow hunter you know what I mean)

You'll find even here on this forum there is a side to each camp, Round Ball or Minnie/Maxi.
In General;
If your after Whitetail/Hog/Black Bear at the max of your hunting quests the 50-54cal round ball is plenty for the task.
Elk/Moose really cold use a little more "ummff" and a 58cal+ size or the Elongated projectiles..

Personal Opinion;
It's hard to beat a 50-54 cal slow twist for entry level to the sport. They can be loaded down for low recoil and still works fine for many game.

Another issue is "fit", while the GPR is a fine rifle there are several others that might feel better to the shooter.

 

[Prairieofthedog]

JAl,If you want to shoot round ball you should get the GPR.You sound like a guy that wants to do it as traditional as possible,ie round balls and real black powder.I would get .54 in round ball twist for hunting,they are a great rifle.If you are handy you can go the kit route,save a few bucks and customize it to your liking.Google around and you can find GPR's a lot less than buying it at Cabelas.There are used ones around too, just make sure the bore is in good shape that's your main concern.Muzzle loading is a great hobby for you and your son to pursue.When not hunting you can still target shoot and have a blast.Kudos to you for doing something with your son,that hopefully will give both of you some great memories.Don't be afraid to ask questions and read the forum.It will save you a lot of money and trial and error.

 

[jeffalight]

Thanks for the response. My son is 14 and has been hunting with a modern gun and scope for years now. He is basically hitting the same wall with deer hunting that I did years back. If you are hunting with modern equipment you deer season can be as short as 15 minutes. Where is the fun in that???? He said that he wants to start bow hunting. Most of you guys know that bow hunting is hard for anyone. You might get one shot a year. Given that He has to use forearm crutches to walk, I really think the extra challenge of muzzleloading is exactly what we/he needs. It is a lot easier to get within 75yds than 30. Plus we love the guns.

 

[jeffalight]

What happens if you use the wrong projectile in a barrel with the wrong twist ratio? I am leaning toward the GPR. Using open sights beyond 100yds gets pretty tricky. Is the Lyman a good choice? Should I be looking at other options? THANKS again!

 

[cynthialee]

What happens if you use the wrong projectile in a barrel with the wrong twist ratio? I am leaning toward the GPR. Using open sights beyond 100yds gets pretty tricky. Is the Lyman a good choice? Should I be looking at other options? THANKS again!

you miss more often :haha:

yes, although there are other entry level rifles that are good rifles
T/C
Traditions
CVA
Each of the above cap lock rifles can be found second hand for relatively cheep and provide for plenty of shooting and hunting fun. Alot of black powder rifles out there were shot a few times and moth balled by guys who got the bug but never followed through with the sport longer than a season or two. A GPR new is going to cost about twice the price as a good second hand rifle.

 

[newtewsmoke]

What happens if you use the wrong projectile in a barrel with the wrong twist ratio?

Accuracy will suffer, fast twist won't shoot a RB good, slow twist won't shoot a pointy bullet good. The experts here can go into the scientific details why. Rifles w/ a 1:48 twist aint a bad compromise for the best of both worlds. I can testify that lymans trade rifle w/ 1:48 shoots RB very well, can't say 'bout bullets tho.
Scott

 

[Bear Rider]

There is another aspect to black powder shooting -- that of club shoots and rendezvous, which would upon up yet another wide range of activities that you could do together.

Most, if not all competition is round ball.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, the patched roundball will give moderately good accuracy in the fast twist barrel if very low powder charges (and resulting velocity) is used but higher powder charges in a fast twist barrel will shoot a patched roundball very poorly.
I classify the Great Plain Hunters 1 turn in 32 inches to be fairly fast.

A elongated bullet needs a fast twist to stabilize it and using black powder (including the new synthetic black powders) is incapable of producing the velocity needed to get the high rate of spin needed for most bullets out of a slow twist barrel like the Great Plains Rifles 1 turn in 60 inches.

The Lyman Trade Gun and Deerstalker use a 1 in 48 twist barrel which is sort of a compromise that can be used with patched roundballs and with shorter bullets.
Like all compromises it isn't the best with either projectile but it does work quite well.


The muzzleloading guns sold by Lyman are all good.

 

[Matt85]

from what you say you would want. i would suggest the GPR and for added challenge i would say use a flintlock. either 50 or 54 caliber will serve you well. i believe either barrel is the same outside diameter which would make the 54 a little lighter weight.

ive often considered a GPR flintlock in 54 cal. onley reason i dont have one is because i have a 58 cal custom Jaeger on the way.

edit: there is one situation i would recomend the GPH. that is if you hunt in wide open areas like fields, grasslands, and deserts. otherwise the GPR and the roundball will serve you well.

let us know how things turn out.
-matt

 

[Matt85]

But I am thinking if your boy is having these issues then perhaps a modern gun with a scope will allow him to shoot from a distance and rely less on a physicaly chalenging hunt that involves stalking, climbing and what not.

recomending a modern gun on a muzzleloading forum. bad form cynthia! :nono:

we have plenty of members here who have physical issues. some on crutches and some in wheelchairs. muzzleloading fun is achievable for all.

-matt

 

[jeffalight]

Sorry for so many newby questions but”¦.Assuming that I want to buy something new, if not Cabella’s, what are some other good online stores? (I hope I am not violating a forum rule and by asking where to buy)

 

[George T.]

I love my GPR and the round balls are cheaper and will kill anything in America with a well placed shot. I shoot targets and hunt with mine and the powder charge weight is the only diffrence.

I got mine off of gun broker for $300 new and there are two on out classifieds. They are a good rugged rifle That will shoot very well with good components.

I always remind folks that the patched round ball fed and protected folks for many years. Geo. T.

 

[cynthialee]

well my concern for the boy over rides my love of BP guns

Just offering up options.

:redface:

 

[Matt85]

trackofthewolf.com and dixiegunworks.com both come to mind first.

-matt

 

[rodwha]

The weight of the rifle may be an issue. Not to mention the overall length.

I believe I am getting a Lyman's Deerstalker this Xmas, and I pushed for that particular one due to it's shorter OA length and it's weight, but also it's reputation in the cheaper spectrum of rifles.

Inexpensive, but not cheap: Lyman's.

After that I will need a Great Plains Hunter with PC scope for field hunting.

 

[nmdd]

Good prices at Midsouth....
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=MUZZLELOADERS&dept2=RIFLE

:hatsoff:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Jeff,

Complete your profile so people know where your at, at least. I understand some people wanting to remain anonymous on the WWW but you may be surprised at the help that can come from of the members closer to you.

There are folks here who have more cap guns then they know what to do with and may help you out. Or somebody may recommend a black powder shop in the next town over you didn't know was there.

I'm in PA where cap guns are verboten for the ML season but when I was in VA I kept a second hand Grey Hawk on around to loanout to friends who had kids starting out.

Good luck and Enjoy the journey, J.D.

 

[Chris Hayes]

Agreed JD, I am in the Omaha area. If you are close to me I have a GPR .54 caplock you are more than welcome to try out. I also have 3 different rifles that I keep to loan out while at our club range. My personal choice would be the GPR. I have both in both caplock and flint, and the GPR just "fits" me better. Good luck in your search.