Lyman Great Plains rifle

[wwpete52]

CVA? :hmm:

 

[cowpoke1955]

Welcome to the forum and to our sport. I'd like to cast my vote for the GPR. My first muzzle loader was a .54 GPR percussion. I bought it about 28 years ago and she still shoots fine today. The only thing I ever did was to change the nipple. A .54 cal. ball will handle any game you'll ever come across. I liked it so much, my wife bought me a .54 GPR flint kit a couple of yeas ago for Christmas. I shoot both black powder and Pyrodex. When I run out of BP, I'll shoot the other in my percussion guns with no ill effect. This last New Years, Wal-Mart was selling Pryodex at $9.00 per pound. I pick up pillow ticking at Wal-Mart to make my own patches. I use Ballistol for patch lube(4 parts water to 1 part oil). I can shoot all day without swabbing the barrel with this stuff. Here's their link: http://www.ballistol.com/index.htm . Cast my own balls from sheet lead I find at the recycler. It really gets down right cheap to shoot. I have a .54 T/C Hawken percussion, but my GPRs are still tops. In case you can't tell, I love the .54 caliber. Just a personal choice. I think everyone else has cover all the bases. You just can't go wrong with a GPR. If you like the T/C's 28", 1 in 48" twist barrel, take a look at the Lyman Trade Rifle. I wish you and your friend the best of luck in your quest. Happy shooting :thumbsup: .

 

[BrownBear]

Nobody has brought it up yet, but there's one part of your circumstances that will really advance you plans to get into muzzleloading: The friend to do it with. In my experience the whole deal is lots more fun with friends involved. You'll shoot more and you'll kinda push each other along into new adventures. Sometimes it's kinda hard to drag myself away from chores for a solo shoot, but ask my wife what happens when the phone rings. I can be headed out the door with a smoke pole faster than she can say "But what about the trash?" :rotf:

 

[mckutzy]

CVA-Connecticut Valley Arms, i would post the link but the forum rules prohibit talk about them modern thingies....especialy that electrical abomination they have the odasity of calling a ML rifle.... sorry it struck a nerve...

 

[BrownBear]

Though CVA has quit making them, there's still lots of their traditional arms floating around. No apology or explanation needed around my fire.

In fact one of my hunting pards has a CVA 58 cal Big Bore that has been costing me lots of money. I've been looking for one of my own for three years, meanwhile buying two other makes of 58's. And I'll still hop on the first Big Bore I can find for sale at a price I can afford. Anyone who sees and handles them, much less watches them perform on game, will say the same thing!

 

[rkite]

The Great Plains Rifle in .54 cal works great. I consistently out shoot all types of muzzle loaders at the range. Took 2nd in 2 black power shoots, Killed numerous deer, several squirrels (head shots) and 1 Turkey. Here is my load .530 round ball, 80 Grains GOEX 3F black power, Hops #9 black powder lube, CCI #11 caps and .018 Ox Yoke pillow ticking patches. I did replace the sites for fixed steel type. The stock rear site has some play and the front site blade is a bit wide.

 

[BrownBear]

I have to wave the 54 caliber flag too, rkite.

Though I've got both 50 and 54 cal GPRs, I shouldn't have bothered even to buy a .490 ball mould for the 50. I shoot about 90 rounds through the 54 for every 10 through the 50. I'm not sure if one is more accurate than the other, but somehow I sure enjoy shooting the 54 more.

And I sure have a lot more confidence in the 54 for game! That's not a reflection of any concern that the 50 isn't adequate, but there's something goin on with me when I've got both to choose from, but keep picking the 54.

 

[rkite]

Yes, I went with the .54 since it was larger and the balls are just as easy to find. Actually makes the gun a little lighter than the .50 since Lyman uses the same 15/16" octagon barrel for both calibers. Our Virginia whitetail deer are not very large so the 50 would be fine. Where I hunt the Black Bear population is really growing so I am glad I opted for the .54. I had a large male walk up to me during deer season and it was a bit intimidating. He just stared at me from 25 yards away. Also the .54 works really well on squirrels. Takes the head clean off.

 

[tg]

"Actually it is a pretty fair replica of some of the California Rifles that were made in the 1850's."

Yeah, if you get rid of the Gawdawfull sights they send with the gun, these are the biggest detractor visualy from these guns looking like originals.

 

[54]

you cant go worng with buying a lyman

 

[cowpoke1955]

tg,
Check out these custom buck horn rear sights for T/C by the Gun Works: http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=906&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes . Would they look better :hmm: ? Been thinking about putting this sight on my .54 T/C Hawkens, along with a silver blade front sight.

 

[Zoar]

Cracker Jim---Welcome to the forum and I think you have garnered from those who have walked the path before you that this is a great sport and the Lyman is an excellent choice. I have a Lyman Trade rifle in 54 cal (flintlock). It shoots amazingly well. Better than anyone told me it would.

I started into Black Powder with percussion and within a year I was hooked (and I know it is forever) on flint. However everyone is different, so if you want percussion by golly a Lymans Great Plain percussion is a great, accurate, low cost, good looking, not too heavy recoiling rifle. 54 caliber is also a great caliber. I really like seeing the big ole holes they make in paper at 50 yards---you don't even need magnification. You can see where you hit the target! and another vote for Midsouth! best prices I found anywhere!
Enjoy! :thumbsup:

 

[CrackerJim]

Thanks for the many responses, all the warm welcomes and all the information.

I was checking Bass Pro to confirm what was available locally. Except for the ballistrol, they seem to have all the goodies. I'm looking at the 54 Lyman GPR vs the 50 as the ball prices are close.

Not sure I want to get too many of the supplies from Bass Pro as they seem to be a little pricey. I've got to find some internet sites with reasonable shipping charges to get balls and powder.

I noticed that Bass Pro had lots of cleaning patches (T/C, knight, cva) but almost nothing in shooting patches. I've read people mentioning pillow ticking from wallmart etc but I'm not sure I would know what to get.....I get the impression that the patch needs to be .010-.015 for a .530 ball in the 54 barrel.

Also is there any good threads for a newbie to read that will get me a good handle on just what's involved in cleaning between shots and cleaning when done shooting. Although my buddy and I are experienced metallic shooters (I reload as well), we have no experience with BP and no one shoots BP at the range.

Thanks for all your help and encouragement.... you all sound like a great group of guys to hang with even if only on the web forum (anybody from SW Florida? :grin: ).

Jim

 

[mykeal]

Bass Pro is oriented more towards the inline crowd than the traditional shooter, so supplies for patched round ball (prb) shooters are sometimes lacking there.

Powder: two choices for real black powder:
Graf & Sons and
Powder, Inc.
There are others that require the order of at least 25 pounds, such as Track of the Wolf, but Graf's and Powder Inc. are the most flexible in my opinion. The choice of which to use is an economic one depending on how much you want to buy.

Shooting patches: almost any online bp product retailer can provide reasonably priced lubed and dry shooting patches. To name a few, in no particular order: Track of the Wolf, Thunder Ridge, October Country, The Possible Shop, Dixie Gun Works, Jedediah Starr, Cabela's, Log Cabin Shop, Midway, USA, Midsouth Shooter's Supply...I'm sure I've missed a few. As far as thickness is concerned, you need to develop that on your own by shooting some groups with different thicknesses to see what your rifle likes. With a Lyman GPR in .54 cal I'd start out with a .530 ball and a .015 lubed patch, then try .018 or .020. Buying pillow ticking at Wal-Mart (just ask the lady and be sure to specify 100% cotton, buy no more than 1 yard) will work just fine for the thicker stuff if you can't find it on one of the links. Taking a set of mikes into Wal-Mart and miking the material is a hoot...

You can also vary the overall projectile/patch fit in the bore by going to 0.535 balls with different thickness patches as well. Lots of things to try - lots of opportunities to make smoke.

There are lots and lots of threads on cleaning/swabbing between shots. Almost as many opinions as blowing down the barrel or carrying on empty (inside jokes - you'll get it someday). Paul V., Zonie and others have provided some excellent advice - mine is no better, but I use a mineral based oil lubricant like Ballistol, Butch's Bore Shine or T/C No. 13 on a patch, run down to almost the bottom, turn the patch over and run down again to the bottom, then follow with one dry patch. People use Windex with vinegar (the store-bought mixture), water, spit, moose milk, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. Almost all work just fine.

Enjoy!

 

[rkite]

Get a .54 cal short starter, a #11 nipple wrench, adjustable powder measure and A #11 capper. I bought a decent sized hard impact plastic fishing tackle box (muzzle loader box) to hold powder, lube and other stuff. You can get this stuff at Walmart or Track of the Wolf for the fancier stuff. The Ox Yoke pillow ticking has a very tight weave and will not burn through. I use .018. Initially it was tight to load and the short starter was necessary. Although fabric stores have pillow ticking. I have found it was too thin to be used for a patch so I used it for cleaning patches. I buy the pillow ticking by the yard and tear stripes and cut them into patches or just cut them on the gun itself while loading.

Short Starter http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(4...s/partList.aspx?catID=1&subID=184&styleID=893


I have a Tedd Cash brass straight not snail capper very nice. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(4...ories/partList.aspx?catID=1&subID=1&styleID=1


Patches I can not find Ox Yoke at Walmart or the gun store --> http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(4...tId=2&subId=33&styleId=112&PageSize=25&Page=2

 

[BrownBear]

Here's the practical side of getting started with a brand new Lyman GPR in 54 cal:

Lyman ships them with some kind of protective oil/grease in the bore, and it's a dickens to get out with conventional cleanig. Go to the auto store or your shop and grab a can of brake pad cleaner. Spray or pour a little on a patch and swab the bore. Repeat with about three patches. Pure magic!

Almost all muzzleloaders need a breakin period, simply shooting them a while till the bore really smooths out. Along the line, the bore dimensions seem to change a little, or at least the smoothness of a broken in bore allows you to use a different patch/ball combo. Here's my experience:

At first my GPR's bore was really tight. There was no way I could seat the recommended .530 ball and .018 patch without a hammer. I ended up shooting with .010 patches. After about 100 shots I noticed that seating was getting really easy. I tried the .018 patch again, and while a short starter was needed, seating was fine once the ball was in the bore. Accuracy improved dramatically and the recovered patches looked almost new.

Lyman nipples have a very fast taper. As a result #11 caps don't always seat all the way down where they belong, especially after a few shots have put a little crud on the outside of the nipple. You'll start getting misfires when the caps aren't seated all the way down. I don't like the solution with Lyman nipples, but it can get you through till you buy a replacement nipple:

After you have put the cap on the nipple, carefully lower the hammer down onto the cap. With the gun pointed in a safe direction and use your thumb to press the hammer down on the nipple to seat the cap all the way. Kinda makes my skin crawl to do it, but it works.

Better yet is to buy a replacement nipple. They're cheap, so no big sweat. I've had great luck with Butler Creek nipples and Hot Shot Nipples. The correct size is 6mm x 0.75mm.

The little screw you can see between the triggers controls the set trigger. It's too short, so you can't change the set trigger force at all before it is twisted all the way in. Take the screw out and head for your nearest Ace or True Value hardware store. I can't remember the size, so head for the aisle with all those little bins of loose screws and nuts, then locate the ones with small metric bolts and nuts.

Find the nut that fits the screw. This will tell you the right thread size.

Now go to the bolt bin, and if your store is like the one here, there's not one that's just right. They're either too short or too long. Find the one that's the next size longer than the original Lyman and plan to cut it a little shorter once you get home. Put it in the rifle and adjust the trigger the way you want it. The bolt is going to stick down something like 1/4" between the triggers- way too much. You just want a few threads exposed below the trigger plate, so it's time to cut and redress the threads. No big deal, but still kinda fiddly.

That should take care of most of the issues you'll run into with the GPR. It's a dandy rifle, and with this little bit of fiddling with bore, loads and adjustment bolt, you've got a real shooter on your hands.

 

[rkite]

Very good post on loading a new gun above.

The stock nipple is soft and will not last. I bought 2 Hot Shot #11 metric nipples. They are harder, work better and will hold their shape. I have been using the same nipple for 15 years.

 

[Zoar]

Very informative and useful posts.

Regarding BassPro--- Don't go there for muzzleloader stuff, a waste of money and time. Unless they change along the way, they are not cost effective for us BP people.

I like Midsouth (for the actual rifle purchase)and I know someone gave you their link above. TrackOfWolf is good for accoutrements, in my opinion.

The rifle, a ball starter, real black powder, cleaning jag, patches, balls, caps, cleaning, a ball puller, cloth squares which I am sure you have from your other shooting.

It is truly is pretty straightforward and there's not alot you need to get started.

The recommendation about using .010 patches to start is excellent, also. My 54 cal Lyman still needs a .010 patch with a .530 ball and I have a bunch more than 100 shots through it. And the accuracy was from the first day and still is amazing.

Also the recommendation about buying the gun (and the basic list of items) and shooting it is also spot on. I bought as little as I needed to get started and then the rifle taught me what else would be useful.

Don't spend too much time debating about getting thick patches or about the right patch, initially, in my opinion. I bought .010 and .018 prelubed patches to start because they are silly cheap and I figured I would have two options on hand, yet the .010 are the only ones that have worked for me. And I have ordered many more packets of prelubed .010 pacthes for my Lyman 54 caliber and .530 balls (BTW: Speer seem to work slightly better than Hornady for me) and the combo still works great for me.

As a reloader already the process and the attention to steps and the safety aspects are all very similar, obviously. Spending time actually loading and shooting the GPR will teach you the rest. You will have a boat load of fun with this rifle is my guess. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

"Check out these custom buck horn rear sights for T/C by the Gun Works:"

I think any rear sight that is dovetailed into the barrel and a simple blade on the front is an improvement in looks, this can at times be an issue with the lack of drop in the stock causeing one to scrunch down to get a sight picture

 

[AeroncaTAL]

...I'm most interested in traditional percussion style rifles (so far the Great Plains and the Hawken are catching my eye)...

Jim,
Good advice here and I'll add in my two cents worth. I started into muzzleloading with a .54 percussion GPR kit. It is an excellent gun and has provided me with a lot of shooting pleasure. Cleaning is easy, pretty much just water. The hooked breech makes cleaning so much nicer, I pull the barrel off and stick it in a bucket.
The TC Hawken is also a nice gun. I bought my son a .45 TC at a pawn shop and it is a real shooter. My daughter shoots a CVA, and at our club rondy in May, she out shot both me and my son. Any of these would be a good starter. Like others have said, don't bother with those modern guns; traditional ML gives a lot more pleasure...
Scott