Lyman vs. Lee

Now I know this is an old controversy and for casting round ball the only molds I have ever used were Lyman in .440, .490 and .530. When I was at Cabela

 

[jtmattison]

I've used both molds also.
I have a Lee combo mold that casts a .490 RB and a 320 grain REAL, a Lee .530 RB mold, and a 380 grain Lee REAL mold. They all cast great.
I have used my friends Lyman Maxi mold and I am equally impressed with it.
The big difference in the two brands is the material they make the mold out of.
Lee uses aluminum and I think Lyman uses Brass. They both will last a lifetime if cared for properly.
One thing I have noticed with both of my Lee RB molds is that my RB's are out of round. They will measure .490 or .530 along the seam but a couple of thous bigger on the other sides. The question will arise, is your mold clean, is it closing all the way...etc. The answer is yes, but they still come out slightly out of round.
They still shoot perfectly when loaded with the sprue up.
I think any obturation during firing cancels out any slight differences in roundness.
The REAL conicals cast from these molds come out perfect.

Huntin

 

I've been thinking about those REAL conicals how are they with 1 in 60 or 1 in 48 twist?

 

I've owned literally hundreds of moulds, including RCBS, Lyman and Lee.(not hundreds of each, but close to that in Lyman & RCBS(similar iron blocks) moulds & maybe close to 1/4 as many in Lees.
: Lyman & RCBS moulds are cherry cut from Iron blocks. Lee moulds are cherry cut undersize, then a carbide ball is squeazed in the cavity, supposedly producing a perfectly round ball - It doesn't work as well as they claim.
: Neither mould casts a perfectly round ball, and neither has any perfection advantage over the other. Lee moulds are more suseptable to any form of damage other than rust. Lyman moulds will never rust if you spray them with WD40 after using. Use a toothbrush and laundry soap for de-greasing under hot water before using them next time.
: Since I am on a limited pension now, I buy Lee moulds whenever they make one in the correct size or shape- which is fairly rare but getting better. It's strictly a monetary thing.
: I cherrish my Lyman & RCBS moulds due to their durability, wide range of size/bullet shape and accuracy of casting. Lee moulds are more difficult to use in most casting situations, especially with bullets. Their round ball moulds cast qhite quickly. The difficulty comes from the block alignment system with tall bullet blocks on the Lee moulds. The 500gr. Lee .45 is an example- hard to close exactly the same every time. They are distant second-rate to Lyman or RCBS blocks.
: I have a Hock PP .45 mould and it is made from Lyman blanks. Very nice indeed. Some other custom mould makers use aluminum while others use brass/bronze. None of them are as strong or as long-lived as the Lyman case iron blocks. My .50-70 mould is an original Ideal from 1880 or 1890 or so and still throws perfect 450gr. bullets. I also have Lyman .44 moulds and rifle moulds that are 40years old. My lee moulds that are less than 15 years old, look as if they're hundreds of years old and are very difficult to align for casting. Speed of casting has always been better with the cast iron blocks from Lyman, Ohaus(defunct) or RCBS - both being excellent iron blocks moulds.
: If Lee made more moulds for the large bores, say in .725" and perhaps a .675 I'd probably buy them, just to augment my Lyman moulds in .662 and .715. Their .690 is too big for the .69 musket or .69 rifle and the .600 is to small for the 14 bore let alone the .16 bore. They need a .630 mould for the .16's.
: Daryl

 

[Deadeye]

-I've been casting for about 60 yrs. and have over 150 bullet moulds. I have made a bullet board with a bullet from each of my moulds which also tells the diameter and how many cavities the mould has. I have Modern Bond, Hensley and Gibbs, Cramer, Ohaus, RCBS, Saeco, Winchester, Lyman and Lee and I'll agree with everything Daryl said.
If you take care of an iron mould it will last forever. A
Lee aluminum will not and it's not just the aluminum, it's the cheap way it's constructed. My experience, yours may be different.

 

[jtmattison]

Roaddog,
The REALS shoot great out of a 1:48 twist.
I had a terrible time with the .50 cal 320 grain REAL. I can't get them to shoot good out of either my 1:48 or my 1:28 twist barrels.
However, The .54 cal 300 and 380 grain REAL's shoot great out of my 1:48 twist.
Go figure ::
I think I heard of someone trying the REAL out of a 1:60 and they keyholed.

Huntin

 

[cayugad]

I have casted using LEE molds for over 20 years I think. My first molds were a .530 & .535 round ball mold. I am still casting and using round ball made from these molds.

Many years ago I started making LEE R.E.A.L. conicals. I made these for both the .54 caliber and the .50 caliber. I find in my Renegade with the 1:48, the 300 grains shoots the best, but you would not want to live on the difference in accuracy between that and the 380 grain.

I am very happy with the way the 320 grain shoots out of my inline rifles. In fact one rifle I think will be devoted to the concials. My other .50 calibers with 1:48 will shoot them but not as well as the inline.

The round balls I make shoot excellent out of my round ball rifles. I have bought a box of round balls every once in a while and can not see any difference in accuracy between the store bought and my casted balls.....

I have LEE minnie molds for both calibers, and I can not get them to shoot accurate enough that I would every hunt with them. I have even tried paper patching, tape patching, and anything else I can try... It is a shame, they are a nice weight conical and would have been a nice hunting load if they could have more accuracy.

 

I was not trying to make anybodys blood boil, I was just trying to make the point that you could double the production(with .530 round ball) by using Lee mold when compared to Lyman mold. I to have a variety of mold Saeco and RCBS included my one Saeco mold I picked up in the early '80s was a 200 gr.swcbb 4 cavity mold that cost the $75 back then. I have own several Lee mold for quite a few years just none in round ball. My first two Lee's were 220 gr. hollowpoint for the Ruger old army and the .458 405 gr. H. B. for the 45/70 and45/90. So I'm no stranger to different styles and brands of mold. The reason I was so pleasantly surprised was the $17 price tag for the Lee's.

 

[jtmattison]

Even if a Lee mold doesn't last as long as other brands the price will allow you to replace them cheap.
I just got a Lee REAL single cavity mold for my .54 delivered to my door from Track for $17.50 ::

One thing I really like about the Lee is the aluminum heats up quickly and I cull very few balls or bullets I cast with them.

Huntin

 

[cayugad]

roaddog.. when you check your different projectiles for being true, I am guessing you weigh them to do that? Do you also mic them? I have never checked any of my conicals or round balls other then by sight. If I see a flaw then I re-melt them. I am guessing that might be the reason for my occasional flyer. I am thinking that I should get a good scale any tips on what to look for?

Also that 405 grain .458 diameter bullet you cast, how are they for hunting? The reason I ask is a post I read about putting them in a sabot, the poster was telling how excellent the accuracy was shooting them. Have you ever shot that out of a sabot? If so how did they work? I was thinking they might make a nice bullet to cast and shoot in my Black Diamond XR.

thanks in advance.

 

[gordy]

I don't think anyone can argue the point of Lyman and other top a the line molds, takeing more abuse and lasting longer than the Lees. But for the money spent,They do a great job! If used with TLC the Lee will cast enough good bullets to pay for themselves many times over. If I could only buy Lyman or Rapine or other expensive molds,I couldn,t afford to buy but one in a years time.For the price of one Lyman with handles,I have 4 Lee molds.I* usually weigh the balls and find that the remelts are much less then 10%.I've shot many factory swaged Horandy and Speer RBs,and couldn't see where the accuracy was better than the RBs cast from the Lee molds. Even if I could afford to buy iron molds,I would still buy the Lee. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

When casting, do you save only flawless balls or do you save everything that's just slightly flawed or do you grade your balls, saving the flawless ones for matches and the rest for plinking?

 

[Huntinfool]

I've got a Lee and a Lyman in .490 but so far I've only used the Lyman.

It's hard to complain when you never get any do overs after the fist dozen or so to heat up the mold. I've just about quit weighing mine after I did a test with some 176.5 grain rb and some 177 grain rb .490.

I wasn't good enough to tell off the bench at 50 yards. The best five shot group was about 1" center to center the worst was about 2" center to center so I can't complain.

Keep Yer Powder Dry Fellers,
"The Chuckster"
::

 

[Herb]

Roaddog- "I think I heard of someone trying the REAL out of a 1:60 and they keyholed." Layne Simpson in Rifle Magazine No. 70, Jul-Aug 1980, wrote "Hunting Loads for the .50 Muzzleloader". The rifle was a Jonathan Browning mountain rifle, with a 30 inch barrel and a 1:64 twist. This is the best article I've ever seen on this subject. He said "the REAL conicals (rifling engraved at loading) are outstanding performers in all my rifles, often exceeding the patched ball in accuracy. Additionally, they are the only bullets that shoot to my satisfaction in the slower-twist barrels." He used 110 grains of Pyrodex RS for 1,636 fps and got about four inch, five shot groups at 100 yards. The magazine is published by Wolfe Publishing Company, web site www.riflemag.com, though I couldn't find old back issues there. If anyone wants it, contact me. I have personally shot 355 grain Hornady MaxiHunters in my 1:70 twist .50 (and .54) Green Mountain barrels, 42" long, with 4 or 5 shot groups in 2.5 to 4 inches at 100 yards. In .50, the 385 grain HGP shot about 8" lower, but grouped good. In the .54, they weigh 425 grains, and group good. They are stabilized, but as Daryl has pointed out, they may not be stabilized well enough to bore through big moose bones. I would use them if I hunted elk, rather than a round ball.