Mag-spark 209 conversion

[kbaknife]

Anybody got an extra Mag-spark?
I was just getting my T/C Hawken ready for my first hunt of the year, and it looks like I waited too long!
If you are famliar with the Mag-spark, it converts the #11 cap to a 209 primer. But, apparently, the two-part "holder" has somehow fused together and I can't unscrew the top portion!
I can't use it!
I've been trying to get them unscrewed, and it just won't happen. Probably should have left it unscrewed over the year.
The Warren Custom Outdoors that supplies them has the 1/4 - 28 thread Mag-sparks back ordered, so none are available.
I was hoping someone here might have an EXTRA one that they have never installed that I might buy or replace when they get off back order?!!?
My first opportunity to muzzle hunt is the first Thursday after Thanksgiving, so there's a little time left.
I would really apprecaite it if someone could help.

 

[MikeC]

Did you try heating the pieces or soaking them in WD-40. Why not just use a #11 primer.

 

[kbaknife]

The pieces are aluminum and I mean they are FROZEN!
Once I tried this, I have never returned to #11s.
Far superior ignition and never misfires - when it works!
It's embarassing.
I've almost got it ruined now.
I found a place that may have some in stock, and I will find out tomorrow.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Aluminum galls. As does using center-fire components in a muzzleloader. ;-)

You should have been practicing months before hunting season with your equipment under hunting conditions. Now you learned why. No sympathy here.

 

[MikeC]

The pieces are aluminum and I mean they are FROZEN!
Once I tried this, I have never returned to #11s.
Far superior ignition and never misfires - when it works!
It's embarassing.
I've almost got it ruined now.
I found a place that may have some in stock, and I will find out tomorrow.

ALU...Should be stainless. I see now why it's frozen, you need to use a little Never-Seize on the threads at all times. Unless your using pellets CCI #11 magnum caps will work just as good without the excessive heat and pressure the 209 primers create. They were intended for pellets and in-line rifles.

 

[Dphar]

Anybody got an extra Mag-spark?
I was just getting my T/C Hawken ready for my first hunt of the year, and it looks like I waited too long!
If you are famliar with the Mag-spark, it converts the #11 cap to a 209 primer. But, apparently, the two-part "holder" has somehow fused together and I can't unscrew the top portion!
I can't use it!
I've been trying to get them unscrewed, and it just won't happen. Probably should have left it unscrewed over the year.
The Warren Custom Outdoors that supplies them has the 1/4 - 28 thread Mag-sparks back ordered, so none are available.
I was hoping someone here might have an EXTRA one that they have never installed that I might buy or replace when they get off back order?!!?
My first opportunity to muzzle hunt is the first Thursday after Thanksgiving, so there's a little time left.
I would really apprecaite it if someone could help.

This is common with sealed primer igntitons and has been since their inception in the 1870s or 1880s. Pitch it in the trash and put a good stainless nipple in.

Dan

 

[Zonie]

Aluminum?
Ain't that the stuff that is so valuable they stuck a little chunk of it up on top of the Washington Monument?

 

[nw_hunter]

I thought that was Linoleum Zonie! :grin:

 

[rebel727]

No comment.

 

[reddog]

If you really feel you need more "fire" get a musket cap from T/C, I have one of those Mag Sparks, it's a pita to use, you can have the durn thing, but I doubt that I can get it to you before tomorrow.

 

[ldykeman]

I think you can save yourself a lot of aggravation by not using that thing. There are a few things to consider here, though. First, what type of powder are you using. If you are using real black powder and getting misfires with a standard #11 nipple, then something is wrong with the nipple or with your cleaning techniques (includes pre-shooting procedure). If you are using a sub such as Pyrodex, you will want to go to a Hot-Shot nipple and mag #11 primers, as Pyrodex ignites at around 600 degrees F (real BP ignites at around 350 or so). Also, the brand of primer makes a difference. Personally, I use standard Remington #11 primers, and they have worked just fine for me over the years with real BP. Your mileage may vary, as others here prefer the CCIs or some other brand. As I mentioned before, your cleaning and storing procedures can have a huge effect on shootability. I have always used a vigorous swabbing with hot soapy water, first with the nipple on, and then with the nipple off. End of crud way back down there in the barrel and channel. Another thing that was the final eliminator of hangfires I used to have way back when, is to store my ML muzzle down in my safe. That way, oils used to coat the bore for storage migrate towards the muzzle and not the breech. I have found that after this type of storage, you don't need to flush the barrel with anything before shooting. Just swab it out with a dry patch, and then shoot a couple of caps, and then load and fire. If you get the idea that I am trying to steer you towards real BP and #11 caps, you are right!
Good luck,
Larry

 

[doulos]

If you want more fire(which isnt necessary with black powder) got to a musket cap. A musket cap has 5-7 times the fire of a no 11 and is also much hotter. I cant imagine you needing more fire than that.

 

[kbaknife]

I think you can save yourself a lot of aggravation by not using that thing. There are a few things to consider here, though. First, what type of powder are you using. If you are using real black powder and getting misfires with a standard #11 nipple, then something is wrong with the nipple or with your cleaning techniques (includes pre-shooting procedure). If you are using a sub such as Pyrodex, you will want to go to a Hot-Shot nipple and mag #11 primers, as Pyrodex ignites at around 600 degrees F (real BP ignites at around 350 or so). Also, the brand of primer makes a difference. Personally, I use standard Remington #11 primers, and they have worked just fine for me over the years with real BP. Your mileage may vary, as others here prefer the CCIs or some other brand. As I mentioned before, your cleaning and storing procedures can have a huge effect on shootability. I have always used a vigorous swabbing with hot soapy water, first with the nipple on, and then with the nipple off. End of crud way back down there in the barrel and channel. Another thing that was the final eliminator of hangfires I used to have way back when, is to store my ML muzzle down in my safe. That way, oils used to coat the bore for storage migrate towards the muzzle and not the breech. I have found that after this type of storage, you don't need to flush the barrel with anything before shooting. Just swab it out with a dry patch, and then shoot a couple of caps, and then load and fire. If you get the idea that I am trying to steer you towards real BP and #11 caps, you are right!
Good luck,
Larry

Thank you Larry, you were the most cordial one of all.
As far as the 209 primers go, they are NOT shotgun shell primers - they are only of the 209 configuration. The Winchester 777 and the Remington CLeanbore - if you notice on the package - are for "Muzzle Loaders Only". They are low pressure for igniting Black Powder and BP Subs. NOT shot gun shells.
They are specifically designed for Black Powder ignition and don't "blow" the powder out, etc.
I use them because they offer me 100% ignition, and protection from the environment.
My groups shrunk by 1/2 in size.
Jumping on me is like Trad Bowhunters jumping on Compound shooters. As soon as you start finding fault with others' choices, it only opens us up to the antis.
It's my choice to get the best ignition I can. I owe it to myself and the game I pursue.
Thanks for the positive comments.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you feel that way, then buy a device made of steel, and not aluminum to hold those 209 caps. Exhaustive testing with those powders show that #11 magnum primers light them just as well. Use a chronograph, in addition to looking at one target or so. The SDV tells you whether a product is actually contributing to accuracy or not, in before and after testing.

Just a hint: a year back, Paul Matthews, the Dean of the .45-70, who is still researching and writing about the cartridge in his 80s, found that using small pistol primers, to light his compressed, FFFg powder loads, and using a small sized priming hole in the casing, gave a much smaller SDV, and better accuracy to his loads. He is shooting 2-2 1/2" groups using iron sights at 200 yards! He actually has gone so far as to find a source of steel washers to use to make up the differrence in size between small pistol primers and large rifle primers and made up 100 casings with those washers inserted in the casings. Another device reduces the primer holes from .093, to .062". He then scoured the Army testing records from the late 1860s and early 1870s( the .45 -70 became the official cartridge of the U.S. Army in 1873)and found that in the testing, the ordinance department also found better accuracy using small pistol primers in the casings, then! Why they chose to use the large rifle primers is not known. Maybe they are also falling for the "bigger-is-better " argument back then!

YOu can read about this in back issues of the Single Shot Exchange.

 

[ldykeman]

Thanks for the kind words. I would be the last one to cast dispersions on a fellow shooter. I find many types of firearms interesting, and have long and short rimfires and centerfires as well as traditional and inline muzzleloaders. I feel they all have their place. The one thing I really hesitate to do though, is stray very far from the original design of my traditional muzzleloaders. The one exception is my sights. Because of my older eyes, I have given in to a tang mounted peep sight and a fiber optic front sight. I know, I know, but that is what allows me to keep shooting them without using optics. So, to sum up, I was not criticizing, but suggesting that if you use the proper cleaning, storing, loading, and handling techniques, the ignition system that comes with your ML is stone reliable and can be made impervious to the elements. What I do to make my #11 cap more weatherproof is to cut down an empty .22 mag. rimfire casing so it is just a bit deeper than the height of the nipple with cap on it, and place it over the capped nipple, then let the hammer down slowly, so it rests there, holding the casing on. Believe me, I have hunted in cold wet weather and that thing makes one distinct BANG when I shoot it.
Larry

 

[reddog]

Wasn't jumping on you, only offering for free, something that I didn't like and had no use for, btw it's SS.

 

[MikeC]

I think you can save yourself a lot of aggravation by not using that thing. There are a few things to consider here, though. First, what type of powder are you using. If you are using real black powder and getting misfires with a standard #11 nipple, then something is wrong with the nipple or with your cleaning techniques (includes pre-shooting procedure). If you are using a sub such as Pyrodex, you will want to go to a Hot-Shot nipple and mag #11 primers, as Pyrodex ignites at around 600 degrees F (real BP ignites at around 350 or so). Also, the brand of primer makes a difference. Personally, I use standard Remington #11 primers, and they have worked just fine for me over the years with real BP. Your mileage may vary, as others here prefer the CCIs or some other brand. As I mentioned before, your cleaning and storing procedures can have a huge effect on shootability. I have always used a vigorous swabbing with hot soapy water, first with the nipple on, and then with the nipple off. End of crud way back down there in the barrel and channel. Another thing that was the final eliminator of hangfires I used to have way back when, is to store my ML muzzle down in my safe. That way, oils used to coat the bore for storage migrate towards the muzzle and not the breech. I have found that after this type of storage, you don't need to flush the barrel with anything before shooting. Just swab it out with a dry patch, and then shoot a couple of caps, and then load and fire. If you get the idea that I am trying to steer you towards real BP and #11 caps, you are right!
Good luck,
Larry

Thank you Larry, you were the most cordial one of all.

When wasn't I cordial.

 

[Runner]

I have one somewhere. Best thing to do with them is to screw them into the back of a 22 pellet gun barrel! IMHO! The one I have is a 30 year old model designed for small magnum pistol primers. It is stainless.

 

[kbaknife]

You're right - they are stainless!
I was wrong on the Aluminum aspect.
and the firing mechanism is hardened.
Got one on the way from Warren outdoors.
I could be all "traditional" and use an icebox, but I prefer my refrigerator.
I'm a traditional recurve hunter, but get much better accuracy with XX75 Eastons than cedar.
Guys, I just use what works for me and gives me the performace and predictability I am comfortable with.
Doesn't make me a "traitor" to tradition or sub-intelligent.

 

[doublesnider]

Hi,
Do that nipples for small pistol primers exist?
Im interested in geting or making one because 11# primers sometimes are difficult to find here.
Thanks
Martin