Mainspring and Fizzen Vises

[MarkTK36thIL]

Anyone else collect these?

My oldest is a dug one from Canada that I think ranged from 1670-1750. The largest is likely a French naval or some sort of heavy gun that had a flintlock mechanism to fire.

A couple others are one of one known (that I'm aware of at least). Hall rifle mainspring vise, US made frizzen or sear spring vise, and a US made long arm spring vise- possibly for some imported back action lock or something I'm unaware of at this time.

Jim Shaffer had a least 100 plus tools that weren't in Vol. 1 or 2 yet.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Nice collection. Many of them look just like the modern repros available today. Which, BTW, no active ml'er should be without. May only be used once a year but can save a breakdown.
As for the large vice, a former member here once showed a British wall gun which was, essentially, a much scaled up version of a Brown Bess. The lock on that monster made a BB lock look tiny. It's mainspring would have required a man sized vice.

 

[deerstalkert]

hadn't thought of collecting them until now! curse you for an enabler of a compulsive collector!
have only two at this time, and both are in use. yesterday i could have used another. please don't inform the bride i have another obsession starting!

 

[rickystl]

Hi Mark

Great collection of mainspring vises. Funny how addictive collecting these small items can be. LOL

Believe I can help with I.D. on two of your vises. Middle row, far left. The large one, and the rusted, smaller variation next to it. These are mainspring vises used for miquelet style locks, where the mainspring is located on the outside of the lock plate rather than inside like traditional flintlocks. Traditional flintlock vises won't work with most miquelet locks due to the length of one arm of the mainspring being much longer than the other. The way these miquelet vises work is you position the vise to the back of the lock plate. The lower hook catches the bottom edge of the plate. Then the thumb screw pushes down on the mainspring to release tension. The curved, monkey tail is used to release tension on the frizzen spring so the frizzen screw can be removed without stress. Positions from the rear of the priming pan.
These miquelet vises are generally considered rare. Gunsmiths during the period would keep 3-4 different sizes on hand depending on the size of the lock. During the 20th Century these miquelet vises were probably lying around in drawers all over Spain and Italy. But no one knew what they were for. So probably discarded or turned into scrap metal. Which is the likely reason they're considered rare today.

I've been told they were also used for wheellocks.

Here is my only one in my collection.

Rick

 

[Johnny Tremain]

One rifle, one vise.

They are all cool looking

 

[BoomStick]

I never thought I needed more than one of these...now I'm not sure...

Nice collection.

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

Hi Mark

Great collection of mainspring vises. Funny how addictive collecting these small items can be. LOL

Believe I can help with I.D. on two of your vises. Middle row, far left. The large one, and the rusted, smaller variation next to it. These are mainspring vises used for miquelet style locks, where the mainspring is located on the outside of the lock plate rather than inside like traditional flintlocks. Traditional flintlock vises won't work with most miquelet locks due to the length of one arm of the mainspring being much longer than the other. The way these miquelet vises work is you position the vise to the back of the lock plate. The lower hook catches the bottom edge of the plate. Then the thumb screw pushes down on the mainspring to release tension. The curved, monkey tail is used to release tension on the frizzen spring so the frizzen screw can be removed without stress. Positions from the rear of the priming pan.
These miquelet vises are generally considered rare. Gunsmiths during the period would keep 3-4 different sizes on hand depending on the size of the lock. During the 20th Century these miquelet vises were probably lying around in drawers all over Spain and Italy. But no one knew what they were for. So probably discarded or turned into scrap metal. Which is the likely reason they're considered rare today.

I've been told they were also used for wheellocks.

Here is my only one in my collection.

RickView attachment 151955View attachment 151956View attachment 151957

That's the most thorough explanation I've ever had of it. The only person that had any other inkling was someone or of Canada whom sent me this from a French manual, which was what my early hypothesis was.

 

[rickystl]

The only information on these vises for Spanish/Italian type locks were from an article in an American Rifleman magazine from August, 1966. (I have a reprint). The article discussed early Spanish guns, and included a section on accessories. But basically, here's how they work:

Rick

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

Thank you for the demonstration. I wonder if my other unknown is also for the miquelet locks then. I believe I've also stumbled onto that particular issue American Rifleman. Too bad there isn't much more information aboit them available.

 

[rickystl]

That article in the AR is the only comprehensive information I've been able to locate. And it was a fellow Forum member that led me to the information.

From your collection: At the far right, between the second and third row, that very tiny vise with the slot in it. I have one exactly like it. Have never figured out what it was used for. Maybe for some type of sear spring ?

Rick

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

That article in the AR is the only comprehensive information I've been able to locate. And it was a fellow Forum member that led me to the information.

From your collection: At the far right, between the second and third row, that very tiny vise with the slot in it. I have one exactly like it. Have never figured out what it was used for. Maybe for some type of sear spring ?

Rick

Sear or frizzen spring perhaps. It's not been identified as of Vol. 2 of the tool book, but my guess is European. Maybe Jim Shaffer will just do a companion piece, but I don't think he will, which is most unfortunate sadly. More of the tools are popping up again, and need to be cataloged for future research. I think Jim said he had over one-hundred tools that were not in Vol 1 or 2.

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

That article in the AR is the only comprehensive information I've been able to locate. And it was a fellow Forum member that led me to the information.

From your collection: At the far right, between the second and third row, that very tiny vise with the slot in it. I have one exactly like it. Have never figured out what it was used for. Maybe for some type of sear spring ?

Rick

Hi Ricky,
This was shared to me in Facebook. Taken from a French 1754 Cavalry manual.

B the spring lifter will be used to mount and dismount the plate; but care must be taken that in both cases the hammer is down on the bassinet, and that the battery is closed in order to dismount it

75 the beak that you hang on the top of the plate when you want to press the large branch of the spring with
the screw, to mount and dismount the plate

76 the screw is used to press the large spring

77 the beak is used to press the large branch of the battery spring by pressing the back under the bassinet to have the freedom to mount or dismount the battery

 

[Absoroka]

Cool collection. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

 

[shopearms]

Hi Ricky,
This was shared to me in Facebook. Taken from a French 1754 Cavalry manual.

B the spring lifter will be used to mount and dismount the plate; but care must be taken that in both cases the hammer is down on the bassinet, and that the battery is closed in order to dismount it

75 the beak that you hang on the top of the plate when you want to press the large branch of the spring with
the screw, to mount and dismount the plate

76 the screw is used to press the large spring

77 the beak is used to press the large branch of the battery spring by pressing the back under the bassinet to have the freedom to mount or dismount the battery

Found this thread and was going to share the cavalry manual description here too but looks like you beat me to it! You can also find that style in the Diderot encyclopedia. So far all of the examples I've seen of that style are French.

I'll offer this German style spring vice from a 1760s Austrian military manual. The German vices often have a hook on the back like that which I believe is so they can also be used for wheellocks; there's a few pages on them in the JHAT book that I can post later.

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

Found this thread and was going to share the cavalry manual description here too but looks like you beat me to it! You can also find that style in the Diderot encyclopedia. So far all of the examples I've seen of that style are French.

I'll offer this German style spring vice from a 1760s Austrian military manual. The German vices often have a hook on the back like that which I believe is so they can also be used for wheellocks; there's a few pages on them in the JHAT book that I can post later.

Thank you for sharing that! I sometimes enjoy the tools and appendages more than the longarms.... sometimes...

 

[rickystl]

By the way, should anyone need a mainspring vise for a miquelet lock, here is one made for me by Jeff Miller. Sitting next to my original. Only thing I would do different is have the horizontal arm with the hook made longer, say a full 1". In fact, the tiny "hook" portion is not even necessary.

Rick

 

[Big Tom 52]

These are very nice collections.

 

[wiscoaster]

Wow; I think that qualifies as "eclectic"