Making Pre-Cut Patches?

[ohio ramrod]

As a retired tool and die maker I have made and sold over one hundred punches for cutting round patches, but for myself I use square patches about half of the time.Simply because I can cut square patches with a paper cutter and have zero waste. Cutting round patches gives about 15% cloth waste.Yea I know talking about saving a little cloth sounds cheap, but then I am cheap!

 

[Walkingeagle]

As a retired tool and die maker I have made and sold over one hundred punches for cutting round patches, but for myself I use square patches about half of the time.Simply because I can cut square patches with a paper cutter and have zero waste. Cutting round patches gives about 15% cloth waste.Yea I know talking about saving a little cloth sounds cheap, but then I am cheap!

You dont save it in a literal sense, unless you have another use for the little pieces (char cloth?). The excess is just part of the corners of a square. The minimum surface area is still required.
Walk

 

[Carbon 6]

You don't save it in a literal sense,

Finally, someone who understands.

 

[hanshi]

There's no right way or wrong way to cut patches; only the way that works for the shooter.

 

[Coot]

As a retired tool and die maker I have made and sold over one hundred punches for cutting round patches, but for myself I use square patches about half of the time.Simply because I can cut square patches with a paper cutter and have zero waste. Cutting round patches gives about 15% cloth waste.Yea I know talking about saving a little cloth sounds cheap, but then I am cheap!

Actually, the corners of the squares are "waste" as they are not needed to make a seal in the bore. If we really want to be frugal & get the maximum numbers of patches out of a yard of cloth, more circles of a given diameter will fit than squares with sides of that dimension - by off setting the circles by 1/2 a diameter, they will nest in less distance than 2 diameters high. Someone else can do the math.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks guys! I made some today:

Used the Amazon rotary cutter (very sharp!) and a scissors. Not super pretty lolz. The ticking is from Track and mikes at .016”. Washed to remove the sizing and dried to tighten the weave. Hoping to test them at the range this week to see how they group at 50. Thanks all for the suggestions!

-Smokey

 

[beardedhorse]

I've tried many methods of making round patches. Found right size arc punches and mallet hammered many layers of cotton pillow ticking over a "poundo" board or piece of rubber conveyor belting. End grain of a stump embeds the threads so avoid using it. Bought an expensive arc punch from Dixie years ago to punch out cleaning patches. Easier to cut squares with rotary slicer.
Re grinding a hole borer mounted on a drill press is less than functional. The fabric binds or unravels along the edges. Have to replace or shorter drill bit that centers the cutter. You need to experiment with belt speed, too on the press.
If you cut wide strips (wider than the finished diameters listed by Zonie) you can lube right before loading or lube ahead of time. Use a short starter to tap ball on patching level with muzzle and slice off with patch knife. This gives you a centered patch while using a pre cut round patch requires you carefully center it. Strips waste a lot of cloth and lube. I am using bear oil and beeswax on recent patches and strips. Bear oil is hard earned from hunting. A three to one ratio of oil to beeswax seems to work best for me. No other additive is used unlike a commercial bear oil/beeswax product. You don't know just how much bear oil is in the lube. How much Crisco or beef or mutton tallow or unmentioned stuff is added? Sperm whale oil is rare and not sold anymore but old stashes show up now and then.
For precision shooting I would buy good quality manufactured patches and weigh swaged round balls.
A friend Kendall McDowell used square patches. Didn't seem to notice any big difference between them and round patches but he was more concerned with minute of elk than one hole groups offhand on the target range. Another friend cuts off the corners of square with scissors to make octagon patches. October Country or another company make daisy shaped patches in the shape of daisies. I think it is a fad but whatever trips your triggers.
If you plan on doing a lot of strips or squares, the rotary cutters (Fiskars and other scissor makers sell them) on a cutting board work well. Use a thicker aluminum straight edge or carpenter's square over the fabric. You can slice off a piece of thumb or finger really quick if you aren't paying attention. There is even a cutter than has the blade in a compass like frame. This takes way too much time. If is good for making cardboard discs to trace with pen on ticking to later cut out with scissors (also time consuming). You can find clear plastic stencils in the hobby, fabric store but there are a limited choice of holes to trace with. Someone in Colorado had something to do with Bridger's Best patches and heard when they retired had to machinery and business for sale. Never checked out how they made their patches. Maybe pneumatic press?

 

[Okie Hog]

Maybe round or square doesn't matter that much.

Yep, you've got it.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

 

[Daniel Dickey]

I’m new and never made patches before. After you wash and dry the fabric do you iron it before cutting? It sounds like I’m making fun but I’d think it might cut easier unwrinkled. As in lay flat better.

 

[Carbon 6]

You certainly can.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I simply wash and dry my patch material. I don't iron it but one could as Carbon 6 mentioned. I don't cut my patch material into strips, but rip it into strips. I pick a width needed and simply rip the material lengthwise. It will tear easily and in a straight line. The only down side of ripping is you usually get some loose threads, but I just pull those off. To use the material usually cut it into about 12-18 inch lengths if cutting at the muzzle just for convenience. I also often cut it into squares if I'm not going to cut at the muzzle. For larger calibers obviously I use wider strips and for small like 32 or 36 caliber I use stips about 3/4 to 1 inch wide. I don't really measure the wide, but from experience can eyeball a width that is wide enough to go around the ball without having too much.

 

[Bobby44]

Was using store bought pre-lubed. Done with that stuff cause I had to lube anyhow. Now it is octagon and lots of lub over a powder card. Works for me.

 

[GWarden226]

Smokey
Go to a fabric shop, or Walmart and they have items that work great for cutting consistent patches. Don't know the proper name of the thing, but it is a rotary wheel cutter for fabric. Found a clear plastic sheet that had cutting lines every 1/2". Also bought a cutting board type thing for cloth, has horizontal and vertical lines every 1/2". With the clear plastic piece that has slot for the cutting wheel you can turn out lots of perfect patches in a short time.

bob

 

[Tanglefoot]

For whatever it's worth, I started out pre-cutting my patches and making sure they were all the same. Then I ran out at a rifle frolic and the shooter next to me handed me a torn strip of ticking that felt about the same as my patch material. I started cutting my patches at the muzzle and never went back. Never noticed any significant difference either --- excepting for the time saved.

 

[Carbon 6]

Never noticed any significant difference either --- excepting for the time saved.

For me, time and ease is significant.
To each their own.

 

[Howard Pippin]

There's no right way or wrong way to cut patches; only the way that works for the shooter.

Good Move hanshi.

 

[hillbilly]

So my understanding in this article and conversation is that it turns out to be just a personal preference of the person shooting as to whether they buy pre-cut patches or cut their own and if you choose to start cutting your own what is the recommended cloth to use for cutting patches secondly my question is on thickness everybody says use .015 thickness patch I have been using a 0.010 thickness patch with .490 ball. Would like and respect all reply's l have REALLY got into flintlock hunting and shooting. I often sit and think about all the modern rifles and technology with shooting we have today yet my interest lies in history

 

[Carbon 6]

what is the recommended cloth to use for cutting patches

Top choices are, Drill, pillow ticking, denim and linen
The chosen thickness depends on a lot of factors, but the two I start with are ball diameter and rifling depth. Ease of loading, burn resistance, and accuracy are also factors.

 

[Grenadier1758]

So my understanding in this article and conversation is that it turns out to be just a personal preference of the person shooting as to whether they buy pre-cut patches or cut their own and if you choose to start cutting your own what is the recommended cloth to use for cutting patches secondly my question is on thickness everybody says use .015 thickness patch I have been using a 0.010 thickness patch with .490 ball. Would like and respect all reply's l have REALLY got into flintlock hunting and shooting. I often sit and think about all the modern rifles and technology with shooting we have today yet my interest lies in history

My first question is, "Are you getting the accuracy you expect or want from your rifle using a 0.490" ball and 0.010" thick patching?" If the answer is "yes", then you are using the right patch and ball for your rifle. If the ease of loading the ball is what you want, then you are good to use the 0.010" thick patch. If your patches are not showing signs of burn through or shredding, then you are using a good patch.

Most of the members of this forum will recommend you stay away from the prelubricated, precut patches. The lubricant will cause the patches to deteriorate with prolonged storage. If you want precut (store bought) patches, stick with the unlubricated version.

Not everybody says to use the 0.015" thick patch. There's really no one answer fits all applications.

I like to start from the barrel measurements. What is the land to land diameter? What is the depth of the groove? What is the ratio of the land width to the groove width? Narrow lands with wide grooves should require a thicker patch to seal the bore by filling the grooves. Wide lands with narrow grooves require a thinner patch as a lot of material compression takes place on the grooves. I start with a ball 0.010" less in diameter than the land to land measurement. I want the patch material to be a little thicker than 0.005" + groove depth. A compromise for a T/C with 0.500" bore and 0.004" depth of groove comes up with a 0.010" thick patch. If the groove depth was 0.006" then 0.010 to 0.015" will be my recommendation. Sometimes you need a bit more engagement of the ball to the lands, then use a ball 0.005" less than the land to land diameter and use the added compression of the patch to impress on the lands and fill the grooves.

If you want ease of loading, then use a ball 0.015" to 0.020" less than the land to land diameter. The patching thickness of 0.022" duck or canvas will compress easily for ease of loading and accuracy on target will be almost a good as the very tight fitting load. The thick patch holds more lubricant to soften fouling allowing more shots between wiping the bore.

I do believe that wiping the bore between shots helps with ease of loading and holding the fouling in the barrel to a consistent level.

Do get Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Accuracy system for 94 pages of details on shooting, load development and cleaning of a black powder rifle. http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/