Martin Wetzel's double-barreled rifle?

[simonbeans]

In Allan Eckert's Dark and Bloody River: Chronicles of the Ohio River Valley, Chapter 6 (October 12, 1781) Kenton and Wetzel apparently joined together for a hunt. It was mentioned that Martin Wetzel had a recently acquired a new double-barreled rifle that Kenton was "impressed" with. Does anyone know of such a rifle? If true, would have it most likely been a swivel breech?

 

[Wes/Tex]

have found several references to it but no direct descriptions. Most assume a swivel breach or "roll-over" but there were side-by-side and stacked barrel versions made. I got to go with 'Quien sabe!" :haha:

 

[ghostdncr]

You've probably already seen it, but I found a reference to the rifle here: Double-Barreled Rifle

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well because of the speed at which the author claims Wetzel fired the second shot from his double rifle, I'd bet more on a SxS configuration. If both barrels were made independently with sights..., much simpler in construction than trying to "regulate" both barrels into one set of iron sights..., he merely had to **** both locks, and after firing the first barrel transition to the second set of sights on the second barrel and let fly.

LD

 

[Eterry]

I didn't know 2 non regulated barrels with 2 sets of sights were a "thing". I've handled dozens of BPE double barrel rifles and never saw one not regulated, but never handled a double barrel muzzle loader rifle.
A well regulated double can put 2 shots each into 4 inches ay 100 yards.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I was just addressing the argument that some folks make that it would have been tough and expensive for Wetzel to have had a SxS rifle because of the need for the builder to regulate the barrels. :wink:

I personally think that the easiest style of double barrel for him to have had would have been the SxS version, since SxS shotguns were well established at the time, and a SxS rifle (or also likely a dual rifle/smoothbore) with a single set of sights would be even faster.

LD

 

[Eterry]

Well because of the speed at which the author claims Wetzel fired the second shot from his double rifle, I'd bet more on a SxS configuration. If both barrels were made independently with sights..., much simpler in construction than trying to "regulate" both barrels into one set of iron sights..., he merely had to **** both locks, and after firing the first barrel transition to the second set of sights on the second barrel and let fly.
LD

You indicate that his rifle may have had TWO sets of sights... I've never seen a double barrel with independent sights for each barrel. Have you? Has anyone? I'm just interested and would like to see photos if they're out there.

Please don't think I'm calling you out... I'm just seeking information. I'd love to have a SxS rifle, but can't afford it. If there's a means to make one cheaper than I'm in.

 

[ghostdncr]

I recall handling a modern SxS muzzleloading rifle a number of years ago that had double sights but for the life of me, I can neither find a photo or recall the maker. I have never seen an original configured like this and (based on what I have seen in various museums and collections) believe the swivel breech gun would have been far more likely to be what Wetzel was using. Just my opinion, of course...

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have seen some in museums. I'm sure there were not many because of complexity to build and weight. A fellow used to show up at Friendship, many years ago, showing off two-barrel swivel breech flint rifles he built. They were beautiful but way too heavy for most men to hold up for shooting.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I know Jack Garner made several SxS rifles over the years but can't recall how the sights were set up.Whether TVA or TVM still do I just don't know. FLayderman shows SxS, O/U and swivel breech (also called roll-overs) made during that era. The majority of doubles are percussion though a few flinters are known. Most are thought to date around 1790 but there's some argument for pre-dating that. Anything is possible, probable might be longer odds! :wink:
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/10294/11015407_1.jpg?v=8CE316522894CE0
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/10294/11015407_2.jpg?v=8CE316522894CE0

Appears to have a sight located on the rib between barrels.
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/CYPC6R/a-...otgun-im-mueller-ballenstedtsaxony-CYPC6R.jpg

This O/U is actually German from about 1780 and has a smooth bore and rifled barrels stacked. Finding American made ones is a real challenge! :shocked2:


http://collectorebooks.com/jamesauction/kentucky/image4/31713x4.jpg

Not at all sure about this one!! :shocked2:

 

[Eterry]

I've been looking at a copy of Capt John Dillin's book "The Kentucky Rifle". There are several plates of double rifle. Most are over/under, many have 1 smooth bore. The side by side are definitely the minority.

Maybe I'll hit the lottery and have a Bespoke double rifle.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Good luck on the lottery! :wink: I remember the first week it came out here in Texas. Trying my luck and one of the guys in line asked,
"Wonder what the odds are?"
Guy behind me said,
"The same as getting struck by lightning in a house you won from Ed McMahon!"

That puts it perspective! :haha:

There are indeed several types of double rifles that have survived. The side-by-side and over/under are rare but the swivel breech or "roll over" type are much more common in flint and percussion. More of the over/under have survived in pistols for some reason.

 

[Grenadier1758]

In the book by Thorsten Lenk, "The Flintlock", he shows several Wender (Winder or twist barrel) double rifles made in Europe early in the 18th century. They seem to have fallen out of fashion.

An American manufacturer, Samuel Loudenslager made a number of twist barrel rifles early in the 19th Century.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Even Leman got into the act.
http://www.csacquisitions.com/images/store/LemanMusket031.jpg

If double-double is your thing...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3f/98/cf/3f98cf2bb636bef498a980471740b9a4.jpg

This double flintlock by D. Boyer of Schuylkill Co. is interesting because he worked from about 1836 so a flinter would be unusual for then.
https://jamesdjulia.com/wp-content/uploads/images/auctions/346/images/lrg/48323x7.jpg

 

[Grumpa]

My friend, Ed Zetler, built a swivel breech flintlock years ago. One barrel rifled, the other a smoothbore. It was light in weight, and beautiful. I don't recall the caliber/bore, but it was .40 or above.

He did a lot of work for the KRA, and was known to build a copy of a rifle that he admired while he was repairing it. He did amazing work. I miss him.

Richard/Grumpa

 

[kansas_volunteer]

I darned near bought an old well used double over-under with a single back action lock with double hammers, one for the top barrel, one for the lower just to see how the lock was made. Wish I had. It had double set triggers. It wasn't useable as it was, but could easily have been copied.