Mass produced flintlocks

[flconch53]

Another option is a TC flint hawken. The shoot about as reliably as any.

 

[MtHoot]

A factory flintlock is more than likely to work just fine. But, factory flint "locks" are still somewhat "hit or miss". I had one from Pedersoli quite sometime ago and it should have been the cat's meow; only it wasn't. It was accurate, handy and looked darn good; but it didn't operate worth a flip. on a good day I could get off 3 shots and it stopped sparking. New flints had no effect. I was forced to fit a percussion lock on it to get reliability. But I still changed it back and forth pretty frequently. I killed plenty of deer with it in percussion mode and surprisingly killed at least two others with the flint lock mounted. It was a high dollar rifle and the expectation was it would work as intended. But Pedersoli was no better in that department than the cheaper Traditions & CVAs. Would I recommend a hunting flintlock from Pedersoli, not sure but still possible. Considering their astro-prices it would be no. I'd trust Traditions probably more but their prices keep rising as well.

I only have and personally would never purchase any foreign made firearm period. No offense intended to anyone, it’s my personal preference, I am and will be till they spread my ashes on top of the mountain 100% USA. For someone just starting out there are several shops all around this country that have plenty of used fine USA built flints for sale and a Rochester Made TCA can be had for Around $500 in excellent condition. Anyway your Italy made gun sounded more like a frizzen issue not being hardened enough to me and a simple fix with lime and your kitchen oven.

 

[MtHoot]

Just about any lock will benefit from some work. Some just need less than others. Any lock made in large numbers will need a little polishing. On the other hand Jud Brennan will make you a totally handmade lock for about $5000.

That’s crazy money for most of us smokers. You can get a beautiful, nicely tuned lock for 5% of that and have the same reliability. For 5k you could go to a few of the best craftsmen in this country, couple here in Pennsylvania and get your lifelong dream custom built and still get change back.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Are the the older lyman flintlocks reliable? Or is it a hit or miss scenario? I was watching a blackpowder channel on you tube and the guy on there was saying that if you wanted flintlock, you needed to go the custom route to get reliability. Is this the norm?

The problem is..., such a statement is WAY too broad... and quite frankly unprofessional because it is so (imho).

Just because a person assembled a group of parts into a one-of-a-kind flintlock does NOT automatically mean that it will be reliable in ignition, nor that it will shoot well. I've seen some craptastic "custom" rifles.

I own several factory made flintlocks, and they are super reliable..., even those from..., dare I say it... INDIA....

Most of my factory guns are smoothbores. I also have a DGW Tennessee Mountain Rifle, a flint TC Hawken, and once owned a flint Pedersoli Frontier..., all shoot or shot well for me.

I currently hunt with a .54 Cabin Creek PA Mountain Rifle, and I also have a Jackie Brown .40 Southern Rifle. All shoot fine.

LD

 

[MtHoot]

The problem is..., such a statement is WAY too broad... and quite frankly unprofessional because it is so (imho).

Just because a person assembled a group of parts into a one-of-a-kind flintlock does NOT automatically mean that it will be reliable in ignition, nor that it will shoot well. I've seen some craptastic "custom" rifles.

I own several factory made flintlocks, and they are super reliable..., even those from..., dare I say it... INDIA....

Most of my factory guns are smoothbores. I also have a DGW Tennessee Mountain Rifle, a flint TC Hawken, and once owned a flint Pedersoli Frontier..., all shoot or shot well for me.

I currently hunt with a .54 Cabin Creek PA Mountain Rifle, and I also have a Jackie Brown .40 Southern Rifle. All shoot fine.

LD

I concur with your assessment totally. Although my preference is for USA made firearms (again no offense) , It is my opinion that you really have to take the time, a lot of time And embark in a serious journey with each flintlock you own. Factory made or custom, semi custom, two identically made rifles will shoot totally different to various degrees, it’s just that simple and each if us needs to understand that. I see some at the range shoot new rifles with basic skills having no idea about loads patches and not even realizing the difference in powder grades. Mentoring is a great help to all of us, new, learning, intermediate, seasoned and ole timers, it benefits everyone. I may have got off track a bit. Point is, being knowledgeable about your rifle is your best weapon, not the maker, brand caliber etc!

 

[Nav]

Just about any lock will benefit from some work. Some just need less than others. Any lock made in large numbers will need a little polishing. On the other hand Jud Brennan will make you a totally handmade lock for about $5000.

If the fact that it’s hand made and hand polished is worth $4,700 to you. Otherwise buy a perfect CNC milled lock for $300.

 

[45man]

I remember when a quarter was worth almost $1 and I had few quarters. Making $1.25 an hour was doing well.
I would go into the Log Cabin when Wes and Dan Kindig were there. They had boxes and boxes of parts. I would pick out what I thought would fit and make a flintlock lock by hand. Here it is about 66 years later and it still works. The spring broke once so I made a new one and I killed a deer with a bunch of rubber bands taped up the barrel and over the cock. Everyone in the state found out I used a zip gun!
Since, I have made Lyman kits for relatives and they are great but if I had more quarters I would buy a Kibler for sure. It would take 2 months SS for one though. Having helped friends make Kiblers, I am nothing but impressed. I was tempted to drill his lock for a chain and let the wife wear it. All they need is a diamond in the jaws.

 

[MtHoot]

If the fact that it’s hand made and hand polished is worth $4,700 to you. Otherwise but a perfect CNC milled lock for $300.

You can get a jim chalmbers usa made brand spanking new for $295.00

 

[MtHoot]

You can get a jim chalmbers usa made brand spanking new for $295.00

Siler

 

[MAC1967]

There is no doubt that a custom rifle can be better than a commercial rifle, but it depends upon who built it and their skill level. Many custom rifles, perhaps most, (not all) use better locks and barrels than factory rifles.

That being said, factory rifles generally perform very well . . . just as there are poor custom builds there are factory-built lemons. I had a Traditions Crockett which has a stellar reputation on this forum, but I couldn't group well at all after two years of shooting it . .. and I had issues with the breech grabbing patches that was really annoying. I finally went with a custom 32.

However, I have an Invest Arms LH Lyman Great Plains that I think was made in the late 90's . . . I bought it used off Gunbroker and it has been an excellent rifle. The lock is perhaps not as strong as the two Siler's in my two custom rifles, but it has never failed as long as I use an English flint . . not one of those cut agate things. . . I am very confident with it in the woods. . . I have taken two deer with it.

 

[Y2GREY]

I have factory produced Lyman GPR .54 flintlock in the brown. If you want to know more about it let me know. I wouldn’t expect most mass production rifles to be of the same quality of a custom or even a well assembled kit. There will always be exceptions.

 

[EC121]

If the fact that it’s hand made and hand polished is worth $4,700 to you. Otherwise buy a perfect CNC milled lock for $300.

I agree. I didn't say I wanted one. I just said a totally custom individually handmade lock was available.

I also had to polish my Woodsrunner lock. It wasn't perfectly CNC milled. It was machined to really nice tolerances, but it had some "rough" spots in various places that needed polishing. It also had some casting flash(parting lines) on the frizzen and hammer. ( Those two pieces aren't machined.) Milling cutter marks under the pan, etc. It worked fine that way it was received, but once I knew the spots were there, I had to do some polishing.
If Jim K. polished his locks to a higher level, they would be a lot more than $300. I would call Kibler/Chambers/ L&R locks production locks since they are turned out in quantity. Chambers has several people assembling batches of his castings. That would easily fit in the "production" category.

 

[MtHoot]

I agree. I didn't say I wanted one. I just said a totally custom individually handmade lock was available.

I also had to polish my Woodsrunner lock. It wasn't perfectly CNC milled. It was machined to really nice tolerances, but it had some "rough" spots in various places that needed polishing. It also had some casting flash(parting lines) on the frizzen and hammer. ( Those two pieces aren't machined.) Milling cutter marks under the pan, etc. It worked fine that way it was received, but once I knew the spots were there, I had to do some polishing.
If Jim K. polished his locks to a higher level, they would be a lot more than $300. I would call Kibler/Chambers/ L&R locks production locks since they are turned out in quantity. Chambers has several people assembling batches of his castings. That would easily fit in the "production" category.

Very well said

 

[MtHoot]

I have a TC Renegade bought in 85, a Pedersoli bought in 90, and a Cabella's (Investarms) bought around 95. All have worked flawlessly through many a woods walk shoot. Your looking at 20 plus rounds and never had to replace a flint. Maybe just lucky.

On a good quality lock you should easily get 50 shots some I know 75-100 shots before it’s kaput. I certainly hope you get at least 20

 

[Kansas Kid]

One sure way to know is buy it and then you can be the guy who knows all about it. I scored a woods walk this weekend and a guy got second place with some old CVA bobcat cheapie flint rifle. He had de breached it and enlarged the powder channels along with various other things and had nerves of steel with the painfully slow lock times.
I shot my LH 24ga trade gun on the woods walk smooth bore comp. Flat face breech ,VCD lock, White lightning liner, Very fast and reliable and only missed one target.

I did enjoy watching the guy shooting the CVA though. It’s a choice for you to make as to the level of buy in you want to make. I have about 10 custom to semi Custom flint guns and most all needed some work to perform at their maximum potential. Good luck in you journey.

 

[tdperry]

Don't want to rain on anyones parade... but I have a mid 80's era TC Hawken flintlock, and once I upgraded the frizzen plate to a newer version, I have yet to have any issues with a decently quick "bang" when the trigger is pulled. And all I had to do was contact TC and they sent me a new frizzen free of charge (and I ordered 2 more spares) back when they were still doing business.
I've fired numerous rounds through this rifle and have never had a mis-fire, slow fire or anything similar. I pull the trigger, small pause and it goes bang. Now yes, I did pay more than it was probably worth, but I loved the wood that was wrapped around it and that was what I paid extra for. To me, the wood speaks volumes... and I was blessed with an accurate and (so far) reliable rifle. I've probably put (not going to guess rounds) about 4 pounds of 3X powder through it and have never had a mis-fire or slow fire. Yes, I did get a better touch-hole liner (actually bought 6),but so far, I really like the rifle except for it's crappy sights that were default. But that was easily resolved. I wish I had been more "in touch" with the field and gotten an after-market barrel before they became rarer than hens teeth... but currently this one kills all the hog/deer I desire.

 

[Commodore Swab]

There are many words being tossed around that many have different definition of like. . .factory built, mass produced, custom, reliable ect.

When more locks come out of India than chambers, Davis ect are they mass produced or custom. Each one is individually made with no interchangeable parts after all! For that matter if locks are being produced in masse (same lock) and used in a variety of guns by different builders are those then mass produced? Factory built should be simple as a number of guns come out of the factory finished and ready to use.

Of course reliability is a topic to itself. Most consider one to be reliable if when clean and having a good flint they would be surprised if it didn't fire. Others expect it to go off in the rain, some might expect continuous firing without cleaning. Some might clean and check it after every shot expecting hundreds of shots per flint. In my opinion most of the shelf locks whether they be Italian, Indian, or American (almost like a lost Italian looking for India and finding America) are made where the frizzen locks shut and has to be hit hard to be opened. If used with a good flint they WILL spark and work. The drawback of course is while "reliable" they tend to be rock crushers and in the process of crushing rocks put additional wear on everything else. This is where a tuned lock regardless of the original source is superior. Those doing the tuning will vary in their skills.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Production rifles can work good or they can be a nightmare. Some especially the Hawken styles they are simply putting a flintlock onto a breech designed for a percussion lock. But even then depending on how the chamber is designed some work better with a flintlock than others. Many of the people shooting them have taken the time and work to find ways to make them reliable. From the posts I have seen the biggest problem seems to be the locks which need some work to make them reliable. I have a lock I bought from DGW MANY MANY years ago and if I posted pictures of it most of the experts on here would claim it couldn't work because the geometry is all off. The lock looks clunky as hell. The frizzen face is flat as a board and the hammer looks crazy, the parts on the inside look over size. When you go to half cock and then full cock the sear barley moves. When you fire it the flint is pointed into the pan and it always sends sparks into the pan. The flint that is in it right now looks more like something I picked up out of the creek, doesn't look like there is a sharp edge on it but it still throwing sparks. You don't need a $350 lock to get something that works good. Just because something doesn't work perfect out of the box doesn't mean it can't be fixed.

 

[Trot]

The only reliability issues I have had with the Investarm made Lymans was with the touchole. Opening up just a little made all the difference.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

if you wanted flintlock, you needed to go the custom route to get reliability.

Yuppers. custom is a wide meaning word. I prefer home made.
If Kebler was around when I built my flinter, it would have his name on it.

The lock is 90% of it. So many threads here about can I fit lock band X on my production gun.
I got my first flinter in the early 90s. After a few years of frustration, I gave it away. Made mine, and have had stellar performance ever since.

5 grand for a lock, musta been made of gold. I built one from Jess Melot's parts over at the rifle Shoppe. It was like $150 in parts.