Matching French Double 50's

[cornstalk]

Most of the Mountain Men carried pistols (well the ones that survived anyway), a lot of them a pair of pistols, so when I came across these 1750'ish matching French Double Barrel 50cals that a French officer carried during the Revolutionary War I had to have them for my persona.

One was in really good firing condition, the other not so much. I'm guessing that one was his strong hand pistol. Both cocks had hairline cracks that might have been fine, or not. One lock caught at half cock when the trigger was pulled, the other had to have perfect screw tightness or there was so much slack in the trigger that it wouldn't work. And one barrel looked a little like a flat tire at the muzzle- I'm guessing someone dropped it at some point.

And for ram rods they had dark brown painted golf tees, yea kinda short, but for display purposes not bad.

Called some friends looking for advice and one of them recommended Ron Scott. We talked a bit and I shipped the pistols off to him. He found a guy that does micro-iron welding and that took care of the cracks. Then Ron went through everything, cleaned everything, tweaked and adjusted everything, filed the welds on the cocks so you can't even tell they were repaired. He even turned some new ramrods for the pistols, and aged em so they look almost like they've been there forever.

Got em back to day and they are now ever so sweet, tight, and perfectly functional. Pretty awesome for pistols that are what 270+ years old. Ron is amazing! I just know the pistols are happy to again be what they were meant to be.

As far as the pistols it's amazing to see four hand made locks, matched up to two hand made stocks and four hand made barrels. Everything being just the smallest bit different then everything else. And it all works. So different then todays CNC world (or dare I say 3D printer world). I am awed.

But heh, now I could use some help from you guys. The ramrods on these pistols, even the originals, were never designed to clean the bore or extract a ball (unless I'm missing something here). Of course I've got bench rods I can clean/extract with but what would folks back in the late 1700's carried with them to do the same, period correct of course. A ball starter with a screw and worm or jag? Or ????

 

[desi23]

If they were originally a cased pair then I would expect a combination cleaning and loading rod would have been in the case. The ones on the guns only being used for a field reload, the combo rod being used for first loading and later cleaning. Many old pairs were originally sold cased but over time the cases get damaged or separated. The owner could have continued to use the case rod or gotten something similar made if this happened to him or if he had bought them uncased...............

Of course not all such pairs lost their cases in the old days. More than a few old time collectors used to take guns out of their cases, hang the guns up and put the cases in a closet. Old pictures of displayed guns sometimes show the cases stacked up to one side and they didn't always get matched up later when the guns were sold. When I first started collecting guns years ago more than one older collector told me about dealing with such things. One once ended up with over a hundred cases found in the attic that were going to be thrown away after the guns had been sold. They had flasks, molds, rods and other items inside and it was only by chance that he found out and was able to save them.

I would suggest making a combo loading/cleaning rod for your purposes perhaps with a belt pouch to carry it if you wanted to carry it in the field. Or get a case made (or make it yourself if you like wood working!) and assemble a suitable set of accessories to complement these fine pistols

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Most of the Mountain Men carried pistols (well the ones that survived anyway), a lot of them a pair of pistols, so when I came across these 1750'ish matching French Double Barrel 50cals that a French officer carried during the Revolutionary War I had to have them for my persona.

One was in really good firing condition, the other not so much. I'm guessing that one was his strong hand pistol. Both cocks had hairline cracks that might have been fine, or not. One lock caught at half cock when the trigger was pulled, the other had to have perfect screw tightness or there was so much slack in the trigger that it wouldn't work. And one barrel looked a little like a flat tire at the muzzle- I'm guessing someone dropped it at some point.

And for ram rods they had dark brown painted golf tees, yea kinda short, but for display purposes not bad.

Called some friends looking for advice and one of them recommended Ron Scott. We talked a bit and I shipped the pistols off to him. He found a guy that does micro-iron welding and that took care of the cracks. Then Ron went through everything, cleaned everything, tweaked and adjusted everything, filed the welds on the cocks so you can't even tell they were repaired. He even turned some new ramrods for the pistols, and aged em so they look almost like they've been there forever.

Got em back to day and they are now ever so sweet, tight, and perfectly functional. Pretty awesome for pistols that are what 270+ years old. Ron is amazing! I just know the pistols are happy to again be what they were meant to be.

As far as the pistols it's amazing to see four hand made locks, matched up to two hand made stocks and four hand made barrels. Everything being just the smallest bit different then everything else. And it all works. So different then todays CNC world (or dare I say 3D printer world). I am awed.

But heh, now I could use some help from you guys. The ramrods on these pistols, even the originals, were never designed to clean the bore or extract a ball (unless I'm missing something here). Of course I've got bench rods I can clean/extract with but what would folks back in the late 1700's carried with them to do the same, period correct of course. A ball starter with a screw and worm or jag? Or ????

View attachment 105923

Beautiful!

 

[nkbj]

Those just make my day. Thanks.

 

[cornstalk]

...I would suggest making a combo loading/cleaning rod for your purposes perhaps with a belt pouch to carry it if you wanted to carry it in the field. Or get a case made (or make it yourself if you like wood working!) and assemble a suitable set of accessories to complement these fine pistols

I think I will do that. Actually the pistols are short enough that I could just carry a separate rod with the shooting pouch, either inside or outside in a dedicated sleeve.

 

[SOLANCO]

Those two pistols are the sweetest things I have seen in a good long while!

 

[cornstalk]

Thought I'd add something else I spotted. I already determined that one pistol, the one holstered on the strong or dominant side, was fired much more than the other based on the wear and tear of both. Now that they are back in my hands I noticed at the bottom of each barrel a triangle shape is cut into the breech, the base of the triangle cut being where the flash hole comes into the bore. Three of the barrels have very sharp triangle cuts. The fourth, the one fired by the forward trigger of the dominant hand gun, the triangle is significantly burned away making it almost a circle. Clearly this barrel was fired a lot compared to the other three. What does that mean? Could be the French officer was a heck of a shot and only needed one ball to dispatch the enemy. Or could be the battlefield was so dynamic that about all he could get off was one shot before remaining targets disappeared or were out of range. Or could be...? What cool stories these pistols could tell us.

 

[William Lincoln]

Wow. They look like "Howdah" pieces. In a day when most men didn't have one
shot this guy had 4.

 

[1861colt]

My distant cousin George F. Ruxton wrote about his doubles saving his bacon. He was heading north out of Northern Mexico when he encountered a group of road bandits. When they saw he had a pair of double barrel pistols and a double rifle, Ruxton could see their countenance drop and demeanor suddenly change. You could never have too much firepower. He was well off and could afford such protection that were made by English maker W. Richards. Suppose his horse had a "rumper-sticker" that said Powered by W Richards?

 

[nhmoose]

Nice!

 

[rickystl]

I think I will do that. Actually the pistols are short enough that I could just carry a separate rod with the shooting pouch, either inside or outside in a dedicated sleeve.

That would certainly work. Also, a separate loading/cleaning rod with a leather throng with adjustment clamp suspended from the neck. With the longer shaft of the rod tucked into the belt/holder when not in use.
This Belgium military style pistol that many of us are familiar with was made without a ramrod provision. The rods were separate and suspended from a cord/lace around the neck.

By the way, a GREAT looking pair of pistols. Congratulations.

Rick

 

[Relic shooter]

Most of the Mountain Men carried pistols (well the ones that survived anyway), a lot of them a pair of pistols, so when I came across these 1750'ish matching French Double Barrel 50cals that a French officer carried during the Revolutionary War I had to have them for my persona.

One was in really good firing condition, the other not so much. I'm guessing that one was his strong hand pistol. Both cocks had hairline cracks that might have been fine, or not. One lock caught at half cock when the trigger was pulled, the other had to have perfect screw tightness or there was so much slack in the trigger that it wouldn't work. And one barrel looked a little like a flat tire at the muzzle- I'm guessing someone dropped it at some point.

And for ram rods they had dark brown painted golf tees, yea kinda short, but for display purposes not bad.

Called some friends looking for advice and one of them recommended Ron Scott. We talked a bit and I shipped the pistols off to him. He found a guy that does micro-iron welding and that took care of the cracks. Then Ron went through everything, cleaned everything, tweaked and adjusted everything, filed the welds on the cocks so you can't even tell they were repaired. He even turned some new ramrods for the pistols, and aged em so they look almost like they've been there forever.

Got em back to day and they are now ever so sweet, tight, and perfectly functional. Pretty awesome for pistols that are what 270+ years old. Ron is amazing! I just know the pistols are happy to again be what they were meant to be.

As far as the pistols it's amazing to see four hand made locks, matched up to two hand made stocks and four hand made barrels. Everything being just the smallest bit different then everything else. And it all works. So different then todays CNC world (or dare I say 3D printer world). I am awed.

But heh, now I could use some help from you guys. The ramrods on these pistols, even the originals, were never designed to clean the bore or extract a ball (unless I'm missing something here). Of course I've got bench rods I can clean/extract with but what would folks back in the late 1700's carried with them to do the same, period correct of course. A ball starter with a screw and worm or jag? Or ????

View attachment 105923

 

[Relic shooter]

Very nice set of pistols , Ron Scott was a great choice to rehabilitate them. I also shoot originals.

 

[Nathan55770]

Wow those are some great pistols, I'm glad you got them repaired instead of leaving them as it they look like a blast to shoot.

 

[cornstalk]

Wow those are some great pistols, I'm glad you got them repaired instead of leaving them as it they look like a blast to shoot.

Thanks, and they are. The pistol that someone dropped in the past and dented the muzzle, which was swedged back open, shoots the person standing to the right of the person I want to shoot even close in, say 5 yards. The right side of that muzzle is a little shorter than the left side, I assume this is what causes that. If it was a single barrel I'd just file the end even, but can't really do that with a double unless I file both barrels, which I don't want to do. Other than that they shoot great.

 

[smoothshooter]

Most of the Mountain Men carried pistols (well the ones that survived anyway), a lot of them a pair of pistols, so when I came across these 1750'ish matching French Double Barrel 50cals that a French officer carried during the Revolutionary War I had to have them for my persona.

One was in really good firing condition, the other not so much. I'm guessing that one was his strong hand pistol. Both cocks had hairline cracks that might have been fine, or not. One lock caught at half cock when the trigger was pulled, the other had to have perfect screw tightness or there was so much slack in the trigger that it wouldn't work. And one barrel looked a little like a flat tire at the muzzle- I'm guessing someone dropped it at some point.

And for ram rods they had dark brown painted golf tees, yea kinda short, but for display purposes not bad.

Called some friends looking for advice and one of them recommended Ron Scott. We talked a bit and I shipped the pistols off to him. He found a guy that does micro-iron welding and that took care of the cracks. Then Ron went through everything, cleaned everything, tweaked and adjusted everything, filed the welds on the cocks so you can't even tell they were repaired. He even turned some new ramrods for the pistols, and aged em so they look almost like they've been there forever.

Got em back to day and they are now ever so sweet, tight, and perfectly functional. Pretty awesome for pistols that are what 270+ years old. Ron is amazing! I just know the pistols are happy to again be what they were meant to be.

As far as the pistols it's amazing to see four hand made locks, matched up to two hand made stocks and four hand made barrels. Everything being just the smallest bit different then everything else. And it all works. So different then todays CNC world (or dare I say 3D printer world). I am awed.

But heh, now I could use some help from you guys. The ramrods on these pistols, even the originals, were never designed to clean the bore or extract a ball (unless I'm missing something here). Of course I've got bench rods I can clean/extract with but what would folks back in the late 1700's carried with them to do the same, period correct of course. A ball starter with a screw and worm or jag? Or ????

View attachment 105923

I would say the pistol showing the most wear was the one carried and shot the most, with the other considered a spare in case the other one ever broke down. Very unlikely someone would carry both of those pistols at the same time because of the weight and bulk (mostly bulk).
Keep in mind that long ago people did not shoot their guns nearly as much as we do now.
We shoot more shots in a year than most people in the 1600 - 1900 time period did in a lifetime.

 

[cornstalk]

...Keep in mind that long ago people did not shoot their guns nearly as much as we do now.
We shoot more shots in a year than most people in the 1600 - 1900 time period did in a lifetime...

With all respect that statement is too broad to hold water.

In modern times there is everyone from me (probably 60ish rounds a year) to the range rats who shoot I don't know, maybe a thousand rounds a year or perhaps a little more.

In historic times you have everyone from the farmer who uses a muzzleloader for occasional game on the table, to the defenders of Bunker Hill and the Alamo who shot everything they had in a period of a couple of days against a force far larger than their own. Might as well add in the F&I War battles, the other Revolutionary War battles, the War of 1812 battles, and the Civil War battles.

There are also the fur brigades from Canada and America that had as many as 150+ persons that were out for nearly a year and had to be fed daily. These brigades had a few dedicated hunters as well as trappers that were excellent hunters. These guys were out daily hunting, sometimes successful sometimes not, sometimes hunting deer, antelope and elk which might have gone down with one shot, but also bears and bison which did not. Throw in the occasional large (hundreds) Indian attack that lasted for at least a day and sometimes longer, that everyone who could shoot participated in.

If I had to make a blanket statement (and I hate even going there) I'd say that in our lifetime we shoot muzzleloaders far less than those who relied on their muzzleloaders in their lifetime did.

 

[smoothshooter]

With all respect that statement is too broad to hold water.

In modern times there is everyone from me (probably 60ish rounds a year) to the range rats who shoot I don't know, maybe a thousand rounds a year or perhaps a little more.

In historic times you have everyone from the farmer who uses a muzzleloader for occasional game on the table, to the defenders of Bunker Hill and the Alamo who shot everything they had in a period of a couple of days against a force far larger than their own. Might as well add in the F&I War battles, the other Revolutionary War battles, the War of 1812 battles, and the Civil War battles.

There are also the fur brigades from Canada and America that had as many as 150+ persons that were out for nearly a year and had to be fed daily. These brigades had a few dedicated hunters as well as trappers that were excellent hunters. These guys were out daily hunting, sometimes successful sometimes not, sometimes hunting deer, antelope and elk which might have gone down with one shot, but also bears and bison which did not. Throw in the occasional large (hundreds) Indian attack that lasted for at least a day and sometimes longer, that everyone who could shoot participated in.

If I had to make a blanket statement (and I hate even going there) I'd say that in our lifetime we shoot muzzleloaders far less than those who relied on their muzzleloaders in their lifetime did.

My statement may have been a little too broad, but when looking at the entire adolescent and above male population living in rural areas, a lot of them either shot very little or not at all. A significant number didn’t even own guns, even on the frontier. Quite a few of the gun-less ones may not have lived very long, but there are contemporary accounts of new prospective settlers showing up in backwoods areas with no guns, (or any experience on how to use them) or much of anything else. Much to the annoyance and disgust of those who were better prepared and experienced.
In the more settled areas some would have not often felt the need to shoot anything because working successfully in agricultural production meant you didn’t really need to hunt much. You could trade grains or blacksmithing work for any wild meat if you wanted some. If you had cattle, sheep, hogs, etc. at certain times of the year you could lay in a supply of domestic meat without having to hunt.