Matchlocks and wheellocks in American Revolution

[ando009]

I wonder if there is any evidence of usage of matchlocks and/or wheellocks in American Revolutionary War?I know it's too late-but maybe it existed.

 

[Curt LaManna]

Not that I've ever read about.
But, one of mine and my kids, favorite books is
"The Matchlock Gun". It takes place during the F&I Wars, and the family uses the Great Grand Father's
Matchlock Gun, from The Dutch War with the Spanish, of Spanish origin, to repel an Indian attack on the family.
That book got me back into Black Powder guns.
I bought an Indian Made .75 cal. Matchlock gun, that we enjoy shooting. Since then, I've added a Leonard Day Wheellock and another Matchlock in .62/20Ga. and a nice .75 Cal. Frank Greek Matchlock to the collection.

 

[curator]

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but I rather doubt many if any matchlocks or especially wheellocks were used in the American War 1776-1783. The gun trade was particularly advanced with "trade" guns sold or given to Indian tribes by both the English and French. Even the Spanish colonies had begun to sell/give guns to native leaders by 1770.

 

[TXLongRifle]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that matchlocks and wheelocks were used up to the time of the F & I War (which I argue was the true first World War of the modern era anyway).

Wheelocks seemed to last a while longer than a lot of folks tend to give them credit for. If there weren't any owned/operated by colonists, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple that came over on the ships with the British officers and/or other aristocracy from Europe around that time.

As for the matchlocks, we don't know that any weren't in use, or at least still useable, by the mid to late 1700(s). I don't think any of them were in British, French, and/or American military arsenals though by that time.

This is all of course just my opinion. :yakyak:

 

[dyemaker]

Stophel wrote that there were German wheelocks around as target rifles in Germany well after flintlocks were developed and I noticed this is true looking at some arms online. Of course the Hessians had their flintlock Jaegers. Again it doe's not answer the question but is of interest... To me anyway.

 

[Stophel]

Wheel lock guns were rather expensive to make. After the advent of the flintlock, everything went that way, for the most part, with wheel locks remaining for the well-off discriminating shooters. (Which I think is kinda odd, since a wheel lock is technically a simpler mechanism. Make the wheel turn, you got sparks. A flintlock has a lot more careful engineering involved to get everything to work just right, but once everything is figured out, that flintlock is easier to manufacture.)

Wheel locks were never that common in America, even in the earliest periods.

While some individual in America in the 1770's MIGHT have had an imported wheel lock rifle, I seriously doubt that it would have been "used in the Revolution" in any way.

And in the face of the flintlock musket and bayonet, I can imagine that a matchlock gun would be considered about as useful as a handful of rocks.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
By King Phillip's war (1675-1676) colonial militia and "trained bands" were mostly outfitted with flintlocks. Matchlock guns were actively avoided because they were useless for woods fighting. Wheellocks made during the 18th century were made for rich patrons who used them for target shooting and hunting. Wheellock ignition is very fast and the traditional cheek stock enabled shooters to align their eyes with the sights extremely well and easily because the stock did not have to also contact the shoulder in the right place. It is doubtful if any colonials during the 18th century would have imported a fancy wheellock. Certainly, it is possible but unlikely. Moreover, the wheellock mechanism needs to be cleaned often during shooting because powder fouling from the pan creeps behind the wheel jamming the mechanism. Hence, wheellocks have very strong mainsprings to overcome the fouling up to a point. Unfortunately, they generally would have been unsuitable for rough colonial conditions although they were certainly used in Jamestown and Plymouth Plantation during the early years. Wheellock mechanisms require a great deal of tuning to get right. I've built several wheellock mechanisms and they are a far greater engineering and fitting challenge than flintlocks.

dave

 

[Curt LaManna]

Any of it is "possible" but lost to History.
I'm a Traditional Archer, and just read about the only "Confirmed Kill" with a Longbow, by an Englishman, in WW2.
That was "Mad Jack" Churchill. Quite a Warrior!

 

[himem777]

Anything is possible. Different Eastern cultures were still using matchlocks in the last century.

 

[Pigman]

The only match fired weapons in the AWI were cannon!

Foster From Flint

 

[jsn]

if wheel locks werent used in the American Revolution, why were flintlocks used in the Civil War?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The original question was "is there any evidence that wheellocks or matchlocks were used in the Revolutionary War?" To my knowledge, the answer is no. Perhaps there is some obscure account out there that I don't know about documenting their use. In my post, I explained some of the reasons why it is unlikely that anyone used wheellocks or matchlocks in the rev war. They were eventually regarded as unsuitable for colonial use, particularly matchlocks. I believe it was the historian George Nelson who wrote about firearms used in King Phillip's War in 1675-76 and remarked that evidence points to almost universal use of the flintlock by that time (100 years before the rev war). Flintlocks used in the Civil War were probably owned by poorer rural folks who hung on to that technology because it was suitable for their needs and the newer technology (percussion) only became widely used less than 30 years prior to the war. Even the military still issued some flintlocks in the Mexican War during the 1840's. It simply isn't that remarkable to expect use of flintlocks in the Civil War compared with using wheellocks or matchlocks in the Rev War. Finally, we can all say that absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. That will always be true in everything and is the reason why popular conspiracy theories persist forever despite no evidence.

dave

 

[Coot]

if wheel locks werent used in the American Revolution, why were flintlocks used in the Civil War?

At the time of the ACW, percussion caps had been in general use for perhaps 35 years and the last m1816 US muskets (flint) were made as recently as 1840, only 20 years before the war. By contrast, the flintlock was over 150 year old technology by the time of the American Rev. War.

 

[shootrj2003]

ld imagine if there were any of either it was a emergency [as in that story] a real fluke or perhaps in a fort where possibly somebody had one in a collection and every working gun was needed[there were gun collectors then]rich gentlemen or high ranking officers who even then knew the neccesity of keeping historic guns..after all ,we have collections containing wheelocks and matchlocks,originals in shooting conditon,that if they were in America passed through theF&I, revolution and civil war,and war being war under the right circumstances ,it's another what if but it is possible.Montanyards used crossbows in Vietnam'.

 

[dyemaker]

I don't know about the American Revolution but it is interesting how far japan was behind in firearm technology right up to the mid 1800's. They only had matchlocks for the most part. The Samurais had banned firearms and Japan had been isolated by choice. It is not directly related to the topic but worth a comment.

 

[TXLongRifle]

Here is a claim of evidence realted to this subject:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=16021.new;topicseen#new

 

[welafong1]

hi
http://http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/forum/index.php?topic=16021.ne... not workilg check spelling
thank you
Richard Westerfield

 

[Okwaho]

if wheel locks werent used in the American Revolution, why were flintlocks used in the Civil War?

At the time of the ACW, percussion caps had been in general use for perhaps 35 years and the last m1816 US muskets (flint) were made as recently as 1840, only 20 years before the war. By contrast, the flintlock was over 150 year old technology by the time of the American Rev. War.

To add to Coot's post,flintlock firearms continued to be made well into the late 19th and early 20th century.Northwest guns utilizing flintlocks continued to be preferred by plains and Canadian Indians because of the difficulty in obtaining percussion caps and the ease in obtaining flints either commercially or by making them from native stone as had been used for arrow points and tools.

Flintlock guns continued to be made well into the 19th and occasionally 20th century in the Southern highlands especially in the Soddy school of Southeastern Tennessee. I believe I once saw a Johnny Clement Soddy rifle in original flint from the late 19th century.Other examples can be found in the four books on Southern rifles by Jerry Noble.
Tom Patton