max powder charge

[torn moc]

Ned Roberts in his book "THE MUZZLELOADING CAPLOCK RIFLE" SAYS as a rule of thumb you should not use over one and a half times the caliber of powder .....of course he was speaking of rifles made back in the 1850's to 1870's.
FOR EXAMPLE : a .45 caliber could take 45 grains plus another 22 which equals 67 grains.( this would be 1 and 1/2 times the caliber,
a 50 could take 50 grains plus another 25 to equal 76 grains.....
I know a few gents who brag about shootin large volumes of powder.....I think it is useless, because .....are ya gonna brag to anyone that ya tried to shoot 200 grains of fff when 2/3 of yer face is no longer there? thats just like sayin "YEP...I AM STUPID"

 

[faw3]

The Q is what is a max load he's never said he even hunts or where he lives, out here in Texas you do get shoots under 50 yds, but with a bigger bore ( 54) the last deer I got was over 100yds and was a clean kill, we had a ww2 sniper working on the last oil rig I was on, it was nothing for him to pop a deer 4 to 500 yds away from the top of the rig with his 30-06 VN sniper rifle made by "whitefeather", and we all would have deer for a week. :rotf: Ive got way off track here sorry! Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Old Ironsights]

My TC Firestorm is factory rated for "Max Loads" of 150gr 2F.

Not that I'm particularly interested in shooting that much, it's fun to take a Modern UberMagnumBoomer shooter and give him a flinter with a 360gr minnieball and 150gr Black... :rotf:

 

[Zonie]

fw: The Lyman book gives these MVs and Pressures for Goex FFg with a .440 ball:

GRAINS, MV, PRESSURE
40, 1324, 5400
50, 1469, 7600
60, 1614, 9800
70, 1691, 11100
80, 1768, 12300
90, 1825, 15300
100, 1881, 18200
110, 1963, 18800
120, 2045, 19300

 

[faw3]

Thank ya Zonie I've got 2 a old one and newst and cant find them off hand, (or even looking as far as that goes)Have you ever read the MBs Im writeing about? It really has to make one wonder. Seems like 2f would be the way to go?? But Im still not sure "why the max" till ya know that...Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Slamfire]

fw: The Lyman book gives these MVs and Pressures for Goex FFg with a .440 ball:

GRAINS, MV, PRESSURE
40, 1324, 5400
50, 1469, 7600
60, 1614, 9800
70, 1691, 11100
80, 1768, 12300
90, 1825, 15300
100, 1881, 18200
110, 1963, 18800
120, 2045, 19300

I notice every one of these loads starts above the speed of sound, I believe the transititon to sub sonic velocity somewhere down range leads to big changes in roundball trajectory. Better to start out under 1200 fps, the ball's gonna slow down anywey. Jest git closer to the fur, Davy! :rotf:

 

[Zonie]

Well ackorse thar sonnick.
Evar notice that iffen ye stands off a bit frum soomone shootin a fully charged muzzleloader riffle it goes "KRACK!!" when it shoots?
An iffen tha arr shootin ah big minniee wit ah 60 graain lood it goes "BOOM!!"?

Tha KRACK is beekuz its ball arr goin suparsonnick while tha BOOM is aackuz that big ole minniee arr jus loaffen alon at about 1000 feets per sacond. :grin:

 

[JeffinNZ]

KBC:

What twist is it. Tony made .45's in fairly quick twists. I have a .38 tube at the moment I am building an English sporting rifle hybrid around and it is 1-18.
Are you in NZ? If so you are probably burning Thundershot powder ex China which has about a much venom as an enraged hamster.
What granulation and brand.
Send me a PM if you like and we can talk.

cheers

J

 

[kcb_1983]

I'm living in Queensland Australia. I'm using swiss black powder fffg. The original owner used 75grn fffg but didn't know what patch size he used with his rb's so I've been using 440 balls with a .015" patch lubed with beeswax/olive oil mix. I tried different patch sizes and lubes to replicate his load but with no luck. The barrel has a 1-66" twist I haven't tried minnies yet but I dont think this twist would stabilise minnies very well. I'm just shooting targets with this rifle at the moment but I might just think about hunting with it when I get more comfortable shooting from a standing position

 

[Zonie]

kcb_1983: What is the condition of your fired patches?
Are they cut by the rifleing?

Are they charred where the patch touches the barrel?

Is the bore incredably bright, smooth and shiny?
Are the rifleing grooves very shallow?
When ramming the ball, is there an area in the bore where the force required to push the ramrod suddenly becomes greatly reduced (sometimes returning to the earlier force before finally seating the ball on the powder charge)?

The 1-66 twist should give excellent results with a round ball.

Zonie

 

[faw3]

Ive been wondering when we'd find out where ya was from, Zonie has got it right above, for target work dont worry about a max charge, you should find it less than max say about 60 to 70 grs with Swiss, not knowing your rifle (what condition its in) 110grs Swiss 3 should be about all you want to push in answer to a max charge, hunting you may want to try bal-ets or keep your range down, you'll have to try different loads with those. Ive got 3 45s all with the twist yo have, but still each one likes something a little different (kind of like women- am I going to catch hell for that?? :rotf: the 48"er H+A is thru one hole all day long with 50 grs the 32 H+A loves 70, ya play with it some youll find the right one for yours, Fred :hatsoff:

 

[JeffinNZ]

Yeah, I'm with the boys.

70gr of Swiss 3Fg would be heaps. I'd guess that is putting you pretty close to 2000fps and going higher than that with RB is nigh on useless in view of how fast RB's shed velocity.

Swiss is VERY hot as you will know I am sure.

No point burning out one of Tony's barrels now he's dead ah?

cheers

J

 

[kcb_1983]

Hi thanks jeff I really appreciate the input on the rifle I didn't think I'd ever find out anything about it.

Zonie the patches look fine with the lube I'm using but the ones lubed with spit started to blow at 80grns but from what everyone has said I think I should try some different patches and reduce my load again. The bore is nice and even on ramming too

If I shoot minnies in this rifle can I expect any reasonable accuracy from them or should I get another rifle better suited to minnies.

Fw the rifle is in good condition I checked it with a bore scope before I bought it. overall it wasn't bad for A$100.

Thanks again

 

[faw3]

Ok if you ck it out and it does sound to be in good shape you can use 110 2f, drop the pres around 900 to 1000 psi, this is safe max with no worry's. If ya want to hunt and its going to go out much over 60 yd (50 to 70) try the Buffalo hp con it shows around 700 foot pound of energy at 100yds with 80 grs 2f psi is a little high but not what I would worry about also these have worked well in all my 1X60 and 66 twist at 100yds, really you should get great shots with 60 to 70 grs and still have 600 ftpounds at 100 moveing along at 1000 fps, (I havent a clue what you would be huntining but it would take most things here in the states. Good luck and let us know how it all works out, oh yes do try to get some of the teflon patchs(you'll find post on here about them they will really help your target work,near cut my scores in half) Fred :thumbsup:

 

[Slake]

For whatever it's worth I wholeheartedly agree with this 100 grains logic. I used to push it a wee bit and take it up towards 150 thinkin it would give me more wollup but my accuracy suffered. I hunt and shoot targets. I shoot target with 70 grains and hunt with 90. With my rifle {45} the accuracy is the same with these two choices