Max range of musket balls

[CoyoteJoe]

I'm wondering about how far a musket ball will fly over level ground with the standard military load for the various smoothbore muskets. We hear various numbers such as 50-100 yards for the maximum "effective range", which I presume to be the distance at which one could reasonably expect to hit the individual soldier at whom the shot was aimed. However, the ball would certainly be deadly if it happened to hit someone at several times that "effective range". So what would be the "danger range" of a musket ball?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't recall seeing a trajectory chart, but since the muskets is not rifled, and the balls are heavy, I would compare them to shooting rifled slugs out of smooth bore shotguns, and expect the Maximum distance to be in the range of 1/2 mile or a bit longer.

I once was being fired at by some idiot with a high powered, 22 cal. CF rifle, from Missour across the Mississippi River while I was hunting along the shore in Illinois. To discourage his inclinations, I fired three foster style slugs out of my shotgun at Missouri, and where I thought his shots were coming from. The local men I was with told me that the river was about a half a mile across at that point, more or less. My slugs must have done to him what his little bullets were doing to me, as he stopped shooting, and ran away. We saw him running against the skyline through a gap in the trees on the Missouri shoreline.

The few reference tables I have on shotgun slug maximum distances show either 1/2 mile, or now 1 mile with the sabot slugs. I think your musket " ball " is more likely to behave like the older style " Foster slug."

I hope that helps.

 

[spudnut]

I shoot 100 gr. 2f in my bess and I rung the 100yd gong,only once :shake: but thats me.I know that big boiler plate (at least two feet tall)still jumped pretty good

 

[Many Klatch]

I have been told that the maximum theoretical range for a patched round ball is 800 yards. That is regardless of caliber or powder charge or elevation, the most distance you can get is 800 yards. The round ball has a lot of surface for its mass and it just doesn't carry.

Many Klatch

 

[Don B]

Many Klatch,

I've wondered about this question as it pertains to shooting at things in trees.

I remember from physics class that the maximum horizontal range of a projectile was achieved when launched at 45 degrees above horizontal ("neglecting friction"). Are you saying that a musket ball shot at 45 degrees above the horizon will hit ground 800 yards away, or is your "max theoretical range" something else? 800yds seems short, but of course friction is a huge factor here.

Can any of the ballistics programs be used to determine this max range?

Don

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Many Klatch, I don't know who told you that but don't listen to any thing else they may try to tell you. 800 yards may be exactly right for some round balls but certainly not all of them. The ballistic coefficient of round balls increases with caliber and no doubt a .75 will considerably out range a .25. As an extreme example, bird shot is also round balls and won't go anywhere near 800 yards. At the other extreme, the useful information in the back of the Dixie Gun Works catalog shows a 12 pounder smoothbore cannon will reach 1663 yards with only five degrees of elevation and that is with an iron ball. I suspect Paul is about right in comparing musket balls to shotgun slugs but there seems to be a lot of disagreement as to how far a slug will carry. I was hopeful that one of our military historian types might provide some "official data" on the mater, surely it must have been tested at some time, seems like something the army would need to know for reasons of safety.

 

[wallgunner]

I was just reading about Prussians firing at a target at long distances to see where their muskets were going. According to the book "The Military Expirience in the Age of Reason 1715-1789" they fired at a target that was 6inches thick and 100 feet (50 paces)wide. It does not state how tall the board was. Anyway they fired 200 rounds at ditances from 100 paces to 600 paces. That's close to or over 500 yards! according to the book. Of course they only hit 16 times out of 200, but still hit at that large distance. I'd say 800 yards was a fair guess for maximum range. They might not have fired at those distances often, but at least expirimented at that range.

 

[Doc Rogers]

Dang, remind me not to hunt along the Mississippi!

:surrender:

Doc

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would not think this would happen in another 100 years. I was only steamed it happened to me. Some drunk over in Missouri, Shooting at the moving Blaze Orange vests and hats, with his .223 high capacity magazine rifle. The bullets were breaking small tree branches in the tops of the trees we were coming out of into a blow down area that was impassable. We had to walk on the shore of the River to get around the area. We were driving deer below the levees that afternoon. We hear the zip of the bullets breaking off small twigs that dropped down on our head, until we finally heard the sound of the gunfire coming over the river. We almost could not believe that someone was actually shooting at us. But when the first kid trotted out and crossed the open blow down area, the firing increased, and slowly left the trees above us, and started hitting trees in the blow down area. He was tracking the runner.

I had a bad knee that was swollen up like a casaba mellon, so I waited while the other drivers crossed, running ahead of me, in hopes that the guy would run out of ammo, or at least empty his magazine, so I could hobble across. As each kid ran the bullets began striking lower in the tree, and got closer to the kids as they ran. The guy was getting the range.

So, I fired three slugs, the barrel at 45 degrees, toward the spot where i was sure the shooter was firing. I picked up my empties, reloaded the gun, and stepped out of the tree I was hiding behind. I truly expected to be shot as I limped across the space. No shots were forth coming, but the hairs on the back of my neck kept getting more stiff with each step. I found the other hunters hiding behind trees, and behind mounds of mud and tree trunks of deadfalls. I just open my mouth to cuss them out for not giving me covering fire when one of the kids pointed to Missouri, and said, "Look ". I turned around to see a single male in blue jeans, a plaid shirt, running to beat the band silhouetted against the Missouri skyline, above a railroad track embankment. He did not have a gun in his hands. At first I was surprised to be able to see a man at that distance, but the river was fairly calm, and visibility was excellent with the sun full in the SW and about 3 hours before sundown. Surviving any kind of shooting is a big win, and surviving any gunfight, even when no one gets hurt, is definitely okay.

BTW. 1/2 mile is 880 yards, if you remember your high school track days, so I can stand it if we overestimated the distance by 80 yards at that distance. Maybe the slugs also only go 800 yds, rather than 880 yds. All I know is that the guy I fired back on didn't like it one bit, and he ran away.

Works for me.

Missouri is otherwise a friendly state. And so is S. Illinois. I would not hesitate to hunt Monroe County, Illinois again. They grow some fine venison in those bluffs.

 

[faw3]

Thats about like the guy that shot at us as kids (about 15) back in N.C. in 65,or 66 we had a slug(from a scoped rifle) hit a tree right next to our heads and looking around saw some clown aiming at us a few 100 yds away .. we unloaded with 3 shotguns as fast as we could get slugs in hitting all around him, ( He swore he thought we had to be deer - DUH with org vest on??) as to range I dont know but the Lyman load book has it or at least eng,speed,ect out to 300 and as I remember it a lead ball that big is just getting out of it's own way at 300yds (oh I wouldent want to get hit with it! :surrender: ) FRED :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Part of the problem with looking at data about maximum range is that you often will read some table or study where they determine when a ball will hit the ground when the barrel is held level to the ground as if shooting a target or deer. A 300 yd. contact point under those circumstances would be expected, given the know trajectory for large round balls. However, If you elevate the gun to 45 degrees, you get the true " Maximum " range of a particular projectile at a given muzzle velocity. Remington use to put a chart on the back of each box of Shotgun slugs it sold giving the trajectory and maximum range. My Hunter Safety Manuals have always included tables for maximum range, and effective range for various calibers, including shotgun slugs, but, alas, not round balls.The table lists the max. range for a 12 ga. 1 oz. slug at 3700 ft at seal level, and over 5000 ft. at 12,000 feet. That is 7 tenth of a mile at sea level, which is a much longer distance than was shown in tables 20 yers ago. I don't know if that means that the ammo is more powerful today, or that they have just done a better job of calculating the distances.

The closest round ball figure I can find is for 00 Buck shot, which they calculate as having a max. range of about 2000 Ft. at sea level. That is close to 700 yds., for a .36 cal. RB, that is not spinning, as it would be if shot from a rifle.

 

[redwing]

Oh yes I think I saw that on "Cold Case Files". Body found in Show me state full of deer slugs. :rotf:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Paul,
I keep hearing on this thread that 45 degree angle gives maximum range. All other publications that I have ever read have stated a 30 degree angle produced the farthest touchdown distance. Where are you getting your information? Just curious.
volatpluvia

 

[romcneil]

The 45 degree angle for maximum range is accurate only in a vacuum. If the air friction is factored in, then the angle for maximum distance is somewhere between 30 and 40 degrees.

Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

Over the years I have read everything from 60 degrees, to 30 degrees to 43 degrees(?) to 45 degrees. I can't calculate 43 degrees in the open without some kind of surveyor's transom, so I put my gun barrel up to 45 degrees. The piece I read about the 43 degrees said that you had to take into consideration the natural rise of the bullet in response to air resistance and the spin of the ball or bullet.

With a shotgun slug fired out of a smoothbore shotgun, there is no spin. So, I didn't think there was any need to compensate. I am sure that high power rifle bullets will gain their maximum range with a smaller declination of bore, but if its only 30 degrees, I am a little surprised. I just have not seen much detail on that topic or any lengthy discussion about using the 30 degree angle. I have seen comments of that kind, but never any definitive information, or explanation for why that angle.

Up until that shooting incident the furthest distance I had ever fired a shotgun slug was only 50 yards. I had no need to learn, nor any reason to believe I might need to know what angle would be likely to send the ball the farthest distance, much less something as far as half a mile, give or take!

I was damn mad at being shot at, and decided that we had been "Polite " long enough with this guy. If I was going to take a bullet, at least he would hear from me before that bullet was fired. I'd like to think those hollow based slugs had slowed so much below the sound barrier, that when they passed near him, they made a frightening audible sound, and that is what scared him off. I had learned that the vast majority of criminals are cowards, and are frightened to encounter anyone who fights back. So I fired three slugs his way. If the slugs did not carry that far, at least the sound did. And my 12 gauge sounds a lot louder than a .223 rifle round.

I am alive, and he ran away. That is all that matters.

 

[faw3]

Sounds like you got shot at by "almost the same clown that shot at us...3 kids in Orange vests , but at 200 or so yds those slugs got his head down real fast..he told the cops he thought we aws DEER!! Ya with Orange vests and shooting back with shotguns...just goes to show not all the nuts are around today this was back in 65 , 66 when I was 1 of the 3. Still none of this helps with how far that ball will go, smokeless vs BP , and the size at 300 yds in that old Lyman I belive it was about going backwards. :rotf: But got no idea, I'll look for it. Fred :hatsoff: After putting this up I went on to flintlock and thought of the 1/2 doz books Ive been reading in the hospital the last few weeks about the Baker rifle, it could throw them out 800 yards no big deal soooooo.... :hmm:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Here in Colorado about thirty years ago, a fellow shot two kids riding a red motorcycle. He claimed he thought they were an elk! They weren't even old enough to join the Elks!
As to the elevation for maximum distance, that depends on the velocity and ballistic coefficient. The higher the velocity, the lower the angle. The higher the ballistic coefficient, the higher the angle. Early mortars fired at a fixed 45 degrees with range adjusted by adjusting the propellant charge. Of course they were wildly inaccurate but since black powder was a very poor explosive it required a large bursting charge to be effective and the big mortars were a way to deliver a heavy ball.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

CoyoteJoe, one of the traditional ways to estimate the maximum range of a roundball is "Journée's formula". When converted to English units, it gives max. range in yards as approximately 2200 times the ball diameter in inches. One of the first references I got in a search is[url] http://www.mynssa.com/image/downloads/GCMSect-D-2002.pdf[/url] with a table on page 11 giving the following max. ranges, based apparently on the ball diameters as used in shotgun shells:
- 12ga/.645" ball as 1420yds
- 16ga/.610" ball as 1340yds
- 20ga/.545" ball as 1200yds
- .410bore/.380" ball as 850yds
then on down through buck shot and bird shot.

Joel

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Hey now, I like that, a simple formula for pocket calculators! By that formula a pellet of #6 birdshot would carry about 242 yards and that sounds about right. So our musket balls should range around 3/4 of a mile. Thank you very kindly sir!

 

[KHickam]

Not sure if this fits - once while working for the Sheriff's dept in NE WA - I was called to a house where on 4th of July a rather large - pretty close to a .75 cal RB when through the roof of a house and buried itself about a 1/2" in a thick shag carpet - if anyone had been standing there - it would have likely caused serious damage - the nearest house was about a mile away.