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Maxi-Ball or Minie or R.E.A.L.?

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I keep hearing stuff like that and that the skirt gets blown with heavy loads and I've never seen it happen with my rifle.

I had a .58 for a while and shot it with Lee target minies and while I can't see it happening and retrieving slugs from a dirt bank is unreliable, they did fall off in accuracy when powder went over 60 grains and would lose considerable accuracy over 80 grains.

I don't think this happens with the modern hunting conicals with the hollow bases and thick skirts.

One of the bp handbooks had a high speed photo of a minie coming out the end of the barrel with it's skirt blown wide open.

I never tried mine on paper (just plinking etc., some of it a very long ranges) but it would seem that if the skirt did blow out it would show in the size of the hole in the paper.
 
When I'm shooting for fun, I shoot PRB. 32" barrel 60" twist. I have only shot this rifle for about 25 years, I dont know much about it, it has only killed maybe 25 or 30 deer. But for what it is worth, this particular rifle likes 120 gr of FFg under the .520 ball. It is a .530 bore. Best accuracy is with this load.

Using the formulas, this bore and twist should handle any projectile that is .6 of an inch long or shorter.

Now all this HC stuff is fine if you live in town and dont get out much. For those of us who live outside of town and particualarly west of the Mississippi where the culture and habits are different, where people have to depend upon their kills to eat, then you do what you need to do. East is east and West is West and never the twain shall meet.

Killing deer is sorta like going to Albertons and shopping for meat. You walk down the aisle, pick a package and take it to the checkout. If you are going to get down in the woolies and chance upon something that considers you to be on its food chain list, then I load with bullets. Momma black bear with a couple cubs or an nasty old sow with pigs is nothing to be messing with. We call the hogs Great Plains Grizzlys. They will open you up from your ankle to your zipper in one slashing pass. The long TC maxis dont shoot for nothing in my rifle. They are hard to load and arent worth the cost. Hornady Great Plains bullets being a lot shorter give great accuracy but the price makes them prohibitive to shoot in my book. Buffalo Ballets are practically square, their length being similar to their width and they are affordable and certainly get the job done.

The hollow base is put there for a reason, and that is to help obiturate the bullet to seal it into the rifling and reduce blowby. When you ignite the powder, you have an instantaneous 12,000 to 15,000 psi form in the chamber and things begin to move. Since the bullet is not restrained, it goes down the barrel thus relieving the pressure. Like Reb, I have never seen blown skirts. Likewise, placing wads under your hollowbase makes it a flat base. It defeats the purpose. You might as well just use some cast pistol bullets and be done with it.
Dsc00620.jpg

Ballet, notice how short it is.
Another thing that does not get emphasized here is your lead alloy. If you are casting with anything other than lead and tin, then dont expect accuracy. If 1/20 isnt coming on, then thin out out to 1/40, and if that doesnt work then go pure lead. Wheel weights are not the answer over black powder. Over smokeless, yes they do fine. I use them in pistol bullets, but over black powder, no. Check that out and see if your groups dont improve on your cast bullets. If they have any antimony in them, black will not expand them into the rifling and you will get leading also.
 
I have loaded a .32acp case of 4F under a .357mag case of 3F as a 'booster' for the 3F 'main charge' (approx 38 gr total) with a Lee mold slug atop. this is my ROA. recoil was stout near or about warm .45 Colt level. accuracy (groups) wasn't up to regular 3F charge levels.
 
marmotslayer said:
I keep hearing stuff like that and that the skirt gets blown with heavy loads and I've never seen it happen with my rifle.

I had a .58 for a while and shot it with Lee target minies and while I can't see it happening and retrieving slugs from a dirt bank is unreliable, they did fall off in accuracy when powder went over 60 grains and would lose considerable accuracy over 80 grains.

I don't think this happens with the modern hunting conicals with the hollow bases and thick skirts.

One of the bp handbooks had a high speed photo of a minie coming out the end of the barrel with it's skirt blown wide open.

I never tried mine on paper (just plinking etc., some of it a very long ranges) but it would seem that if the skirt did blow out it would show in the size of the hole in the paper.

My regular charge out of my 3 band Enfield is 70 grs. and is accurate out to 300 yds. I mostly use a Lyman traditional.

bullet.jpg


bullet1.jpg


This one was recovered after penetrating a five gallon bucket and leaving a hole 9 inches deep in a pond bank from 300 yds.

minie.jpg


minie2.jpg
 
From your pics, I have to conclude that that bullet and 70 grains is no problem as far as the skirt opening.

The pic I saw of the blown base as it left the bore was of a traditional minie but I don't recall what the charge was. The lee target minie has an even thiner skirt than the minie you show so it probably started to open up sooner. When I got up to 90 to 120 grains of ff it shot very poorly.
 
The guys at Ruger, and at GOEX are probably going white knuckled at reading your post! PLEASE, don't be putting " starter charges" of 4Fg powder into any chamber, rifle, pistol, or revolver. 4Fg is priming powder, only.

If you are shooting 3Fg in your ROA, you should not need a starter charge of anything. Percussion caps send a flame right through the powder, whether compacted on loading or not. You get almost instantaneous combustion in that closed cyclinder chamber as it is. Using any amount of 4Fg powder in the chamber just raises pressures unnecessarily, causing huge spikes from one round to another, without much contribution to velocity. If you shoot the revolver over a chronograph, you should be able to see those changes in the velocities readings.

My suggestion is to shoot your duplex load over the chronograph, and then shoot just FFFg powder loads over the screens. Record the two sets of velocities, and look at the SDV for each load. I suspect the FFFg load will have the better( smaller) Standard Deviation in velocity.
 
I've never used a target minie but I sometimes use a Lee improved minie with a big flat meplat. It has a thinner skirt than the Lyman traditional but still works well with 70 grs. I haven't tried it at long range tho. I've pushed the Lyman with up to 120 grs. and it did well but again never used that charge at the longer ranges. Sounds like time for more long range experimentation.
 
I had a .50 cal lee modern minie as you describe and found it to be pretty accurate but when I pushed it to "hunting" velocities the accuracy went away. It ended up as a blanket prize. :)
 
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