You gonna hold it in your hand when you find out?
Maximum loads for 1858 Remington
- Thread starter Small Arms Collector
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Hmmmmmm good question and I wish there were some good "pressure testing" numbers for these type loads in particular revolvers. I would think 15gr wouldn't be too heavy ( even for trip 7). Here's what I did years ago ( 1980's
) when I had NO info except what was listed in the tables. . . I would hold the cocked and ready to fire revolver above my head ( NO LOBOTOMY TODAY!!!!!) and fire a round ,then inspect the revolver. ( I was outside of course! They'd probably kick you out of an indoor range!!)Just be careful and do a good inspection of top strap condition (bent up or down, or even if the barrel appears to have moved forward) probably wouldn't hurt to lightly chamfer some of an 11° f.c. just to allow an easy introduction of the projectile to the lands.
Let us know how it goes!
Mike
rodwha
58 Cal.
According to research some of these paper cartridges with small powder loads were of 4F or finer powder to bring the velocity up, especially if it’s not a sporting grade powder like Hazards.
4F and finer powders have been found in metallic cartridges disassembled for display by our very own Curator, the curator of a museum.
It could also be the ammunition contractors shorted the powder charge, as I recently read was done with rifle paper cartridges during the unCivil War.
Results are in and they are really fun. All shots free hand at a paced not measured 20yrds. all T7 3f. No Lube. 15g measured with an adjustable powder gauge. 20 and 25g measured directly from the spout.
The first shot with two .454rb and I pulled low due two expecting a big bang. Recoil was very minimal. less than regular single RB with 20g
next shot was 20g and poorly centered due to anticipated recoil. recoil felt to be less than 25g charge and conicals.
next two 20g shots nicely centered ,a bit high.
a final doubble shot was fired with my standard 25g revolver spout. recoil felt similar to 200g conical? perhaps the conical with wax lube has a better gas seal?
very unscientific test but I suspect if I practiced with this load and had the proper front sight it would be devastating. no clue why the first two shots were so tight? fist likly light powder charge and clean bore? 2nd was 20g t7 still clean bore? next two shots opened up quite a bit but still only 20g t7.
without cleaning I ran a semi rapid fire cylinder of 200g conicals through it. recoil felt at least as stiff as the 25g twin RB charge.
The first shot with two .454rb and I pulled low due two expecting a big bang. Recoil was very minimal. less than regular single RB with 20g
next shot was 20g and poorly centered due to anticipated recoil. recoil felt to be less than 25g charge and conicals.
next two 20g shots nicely centered ,a bit high.
a final doubble shot was fired with my standard 25g revolver spout. recoil felt similar to 200g conical? perhaps the conical with wax lube has a better gas seal?
very unscientific test but I suspect if I practiced with this load and had the proper front sight it would be devastating. no clue why the first two shots were so tight? fist likly light powder charge and clean bore? 2nd was 20g t7 still clean bore? next two shots opened up quite a bit but still only 20g t7.
without cleaning I ran a semi rapid fire cylinder of 200g conicals through it. recoil felt at least as stiff as the 25g twin RB charge.
the bad news is I took 4 shots with doubble RB and 20gt7 @ 25yrds. each shot I got one good hit and one very high right with two of the shots but two of the shots the 2nd ball was completly off the plywood. I still think this is a devastating load for close and dirty but not precise enough for my tastes..
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,622
- Reaction score
- 8,345
Maybe something like this could work?
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,622
- Reaction score
- 8,345
There’s also a bullet, little more than a hollow based .45 caliber biscuit that was designed to be stacked in the .45 Colt case. It’s name and other details escape me right now.
This entire, very long thread strikes me as a bit unnecessary. The maximum load for an 1858 Remington or 1860 Colt Army or 1848 Dragoon or 1847 Walker is what ever volume of powder that can be loaded beneath the desired projectile and seated below the chamber mouth. That's all folks.
Reading the one where you compress BP, then fill, compress again and then put a ball on top and ram.
I found myself hugely skeptical (incredulous) that it was tried as you then have to compress already compressed power even more to get the ball below the chamber rim!
I have done that a couple of times reloading rifle rounds, kind of funny to see the bullet rise back up out of the case, not to mention you want someone else to have done it as you can get some weirdly wild ignition, of in the case of BP maybe none (no expert).
I found myself hugely skeptical (incredulous) that it was tried as you then have to compress already compressed power even more to get the ball below the chamber rim!
I have done that a couple of times reloading rifle rounds, kind of funny to see the bullet rise back up out of the case, not to mention you want someone else to have done it as you can get some weirdly wild ignition, of in the case of BP maybe none (no expert).
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 13,221
- Reaction score
- 7,562
Perhaps someone during the 1860's war could have created compressed revolver charges with a colloidion binder.
This was my last target from yesterday 20g T7 3F two .454 rb Recoil with this load is similar to the 25g t7 200g conical load. There is plenty of room for more powder. I suspect you could fit 30g of powder and two RB in these cylinders? Distance was 25yrds off hand. I took 4 shots which sent 8RB down range. With each shot I got one hit on paper and oner flyer. You can see that two of the flyers circled in red hit the plywood . Two of the round balls completely missed the backstop and are unaccounted for. I don't like unaccounted bullets that I have fired.. YMMV. Interesting that the additiona 5 yards distance from target so dramatically increased my spred. @ 20 yrds both projectiles were about 2 inches apart . At 25 yrds the two accounted for projectiles were 8 inches apart while two shots the spread was much greater and not measurable.
Any way you look at this it is a very interesting load. Very accurate and manageable inside of 20 yards. Stopping power might be pretty impressive. Un predictable @ 25 yards thought I still got at least one very good hit with each shot.
Any way you look at this it is a very interesting load. Very accurate and manageable inside of 20 yards. Stopping power might be pretty impressive. Un predictable @ 25 yards thought I still got at least one very good hit with each shot.
I wonder if putting a wad between the balls would help. Just a thought. I think this is an interesting experiment. Thanks for doing the work and posting your results.
Many may be familiar with this, but I know of two (systems?) more or less on the idea of multiple balls.
One would be double shotted cannon (closest I think)
The other would be the Buck and Ball in the era between the Revolutionary War and the Civil war.
One would be double shotted cannon (closest I think)
The other would be the Buck and Ball in the era between the Revolutionary War and the Civil war.
I suspect a felt wad between balls may enhance accuracy??? the one time I accidentally double charged my .50 cal trapper while shooting at paper the two holes were 2 inches apart @ 50yrds. There would have been a powder charge between both balls that most certainly did not ignite. That would have acted as a cushion / filler behind the front ball.
Last edited:
rodwha
58 Cal.
There was loaded for bear, typically two patched balls, the additional because it’s a bear.
The consensus is against brown bears, you want a penetrating round. Two balls would not give you that.
I recall Lewis and Clark had a run in with a Grizzly, took a lot of full on ball shots to put it down. Now if you had a cannon...................
I recall Lewis and Clark had a run in with a Grizzly, took a lot of full on ball shots to put it down. Now if you had a cannon...................
rodwha
58 Cal.
I’m not so sure. Loaded for bear meant either you used a stronger powder charge, or you loaded an additional ball on top of the load you were carrying. The consensus was that people didn’t walk around with an unloaded muzzleloader, that it made way more sense to have pushed another ball down on top of the prior ball. It’s the discussions I’ve read. It doesn’t really matter to me one way or the other, but it makes more sense to have dropped an additional ball.
