metal gong target safety

[pinemarten]

Hello,
I shoot my 38 sp at AR500 steel targets. We were down in the shooting area below my cabin and shooting the Remmie at cans and such. My daughter went to aim at one of the metal bells and I stopped her. I know it works for the 38 because the high velocity basically leaves a fragmented bullet in pieces at the base. I have them set up moveable and at a 20 degree angle to the ground so bullet goes right down (you can see it in the snow under target). My question: does the .44 ball have a risk of coming back at us with the lower velocity and not smashing to pieces on the hard metal? Anyone know if tests have been done for this and if its safe? I couldn't find answer in search and information on internet talks about center fire.

Thanks!!!

Daniel

 

[Poor Private]

Well I do know that if you shoot a sink it can. A friend of mine was shoot a steel sink out behind his house and it did the u turn thingy. grazed his cheek(not the back one) and had to go to Emergency to get it attended to. Him and his brother had to make up a story, to avoid the police report.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yes! Ricochet is always a possibility. never shoot without safety glasses.
I have shot hundreds of thousands of rounds at steel targets....and have been hit by ricochets many times...
Never shoot to close or at a perpendicular angle.

 

[biliff]

Done enough CAS with percussion revolvers to know a soft lead ball turns into a pancake on steel. Not really an issue.

 

[TNGhost]

Shooting a steel target with a BP revolver, of any caliber, presents no problem. They are, in fact, safer to shoot steel with than a modern firearm with jacketed bullets. The lead ball flattens and spatters into dust on contact. With jacketed bullets, you will sometimes get a fragment of the harder jacket material to "ricochet" maybe even back at you.

It is safer to shoot straight at the target(perpendicular would be straight on :wink:so perpendicular is safest :wink: )as the projectile is more likey to totally flatten out and there will be less splatter. Having the target tilted slightly forward to direct the spent bullet dust to the ground can help.

At one point someone put some BS out there about .22 rimfire being dangereous to shoot at steel, richocheting back etc. Nothing could be farther from the truth, it turns to dust on impact as BP pure lead bullets do, pancakes and dust. Actually the closer you are the more likely you'll get dust. Just stay way from the sides of the target while shooting. :haha:

Of course you'll be polluting the environment with that dust and it will be darn near impossible to recycle, leading to higher lead prices. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Bottom line, like Bakeoven Bill said, "Not really an issue".

YMMV

 

[TNGhost]

Oh, and if it makes you rest any easier, the 38. Special and the .44 '58 load are very similar ballistically.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Daniel,
I own over a 100 steel targets........

Take some of the information put out by others with a big grain of salt.

99.9% of the time ricochet is a non issue.
However hardness of the lead, size and velocity of the projectile, distance and the angle and mounting of the target all play a role in producing ricochets

Ricochets from steel targets usually result in fragments and would be hard pressed to leave a mark let alone seriously harm you, as most of the energy has been disapated.....but the potential is always there......
Your eyes are your most vulnerable.

Contrary to popular incorrectness, all lead projectiles DO NOT turn to dust when they hit a steel plate.

It all depends on the velocity the ball is traveling.....At low velocities only partial deformation will occur, and ricochet is a potential.

 

[TNGhost]

You should ALWAYS wear safety glasses designed for shooting when using a firearm, whether firing at steel or not.

Your eyes are vulnerable. With shooting glasses on, if you have a squib or woefully underpowered shot, there will not be enough force to cause serious injury to any other part of your body.

Unless of course, you're shooting..........steel ball bearings. :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Thank you for reiterating my points and agreeing with me.... :grin:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Another thing to consider is distance to the target. I would not recommend being closer than fifteen yards away from the target. Also as has been stated, make sure the target(s) slants away from the shooter. The top of the target leaning toward the shooter, and the bottom slanting away is good. If the target is stationary you might want to consider a sand trap below the target. It would only have to be a few inches deep and a few feet wide. And last of all, the target should be able to swing or rock slightly when it gets hit to absorb some of the energy of the bullet.

By design, not all targets will not or cannot slant away from the shooter. But the good ones will move to take up some of the energy.

The only rounds that will turn to dust most of the time are specially designed frangible bullets. I don't think they are available for muzzle loading. And don't forget the shooting glasses.

 

[Walks with fire]

If the yardage is over 100 yards I will shoot at gongs; if less than that no. Pure lead only. I used to shoot gongs at shorter ranges years ago and never had any issues but as a general rule now I don't shoot at anything metal.

 

[coloradoclyde]

One thing that is often overlooked is;

What if I miss the target?

The ground, trees, rocks, target backstops, framework, etc.....All have the potential of producing a ricochet whether one is shooting at steel or not.

 

[TNGhost]

Thank you for reiterating my points and agreeing with me.... :grin:

per·pen·dic·u·lar /ˌpərpənˈdikyələr/

adjective: perpendicular; adjective: Perpendicular

1. at an angle of 90° to a given line, plane, or surface.

"dormers and gables that extend perpendicular to the main roofline"

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yep! it's a good thing to look up words you don't understand...... :thumbsup:

 

[coloradoclyde]

It is safer to shoot straight at the target(perpendicular would be straight on so perpendicular is safest )as the projectile is more likey to totally flatten out and there will be less splatter. Having the target tilted slightly forward to direct the spent bullet dust to the ground can help.

You contradict yourself in this paragraph...a slight tilt to predictively control the bullet path is best......
I take it you have never been to an indoor range and looked at the angle of the backstop or the multitude of lead projectiles in front of it....

 

[coloradoclyde]

Another thing that is not often considered is;
That when shooting fast like a double tap with modern handguns or when multiple people are shooting at the same target.
Movement of the plate or target by one shot can change the angle and impact physics of secondary shots resulting in a ricochet before the target has a chance to return to it's normal position.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Hello,
I shoot my 38 sp at AR500 steel targets. We were down in the shooting area below my cabin and shooting the Remmie at cans and such. My daughter went to aim at one of the metal bells and I stopped her. I know it works for the 38 because the high velocity basically leaves a fragmented bullet in pieces at the base. I have them set up moveable and at a 20 degree angle to the ground so bullet goes right down (you can see it in the snow under target). My question: does the .44 ball have a risk of coming back at us with the lower velocity and not smashing to pieces on the hard metal? Anyone know if tests have been done for this and if its safe? I couldn't find answer in search and information on internet talks about center fire.

Thanks!!!

Daniel

Daniel,

your setup sounds fine but there are two things to consider....

1. Maintain a safe distance from the target. people tend to move closer for children.

2. Your daughter's height will change the shooting angle of the plate compared to yours if you are significantly taller.

 

[smoothshooter]

I would also like to add that by far, the biggest
risk factor with a steel is whether or not the surface is cratered from being shot with loads that are too hot for the rating of the steel.
I feel pretty safe shooting steel as close as 3 yards with almost any gun or caliber if the target surface is not cratered. The more and deeper the crasters, the farther I stand back.
A hit in a crater, especially if it is a quarter of an inch or more deep will almost always send bullet material back toward the shooter and bystanders.
A hit in the EDGE of a deep crater will often send as much as half of the bullet back toward the firing line; sometimes traveling 50 yards or more.

I have seen this myself on several occasions.
I never shoot a steel target without looking it over craters unless it is at least 75 yards away.

Shooting steel without eye protection is even dumber than running a weed eater without same.

 

[Grenadier1758]

99.9% of the time ricochet is a non issue.
However hardness of the lead, size and velocity of the projectile, distance and the angle and mounting of the target all play a role in producing ricochets

It all depends on the velocity the ball is traveling.....At low velocities only partial deformation will occur, and ricochet is a potential.

As Clyde has stated, hardness of the projectile is a prime factor in generating ricochets. So, use soft lead balls only. No wheel weight material for the ball. Besides, wheel weights are too hard to swedge into the cylinder of a revolver. Velocities are lower when firing a pistol so it is important to have the target oriented so any deflection is away from the shooter. Angled down is best. Keep the distance at least 15 yards and wear eye protection.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have experienced balls and bullets coming back like a super bouncy superball. Saw a ball come back from a green tree trunk. I would have bet against the possibility before hand. I do shoot at metal. BUT, I have olde farm discs hanging at 35 to 75 yards and a half inch thick, armor plate full size ram sillywet at 100 yards. All hang on 2 feet of chain and can dance themselves silly when hit. I rarely have anyone shoot with me at my range. Never, NEVER anything but soft lead round ball and moderate loads.