Micro adjustable powder measure?

[TexasAndy]

I'm looking for options in a measure that will allow me to do smaller increments than just 5 grains. Do you fine fellows know of a product or perhaps have any ideas you can share?

 

[Musketeer]

I use a Ted Cash adjustable measure. It goes from 0-120 grains and is marked in 10 grain increments on one side and 5 grains on the other. It's continuously adjustable, though, so you can set it at any point between the marks. Funnel Swivel Measure | TDC - Cash Mfg They also make one without the swivel top and one with a hinged funnel that goes in the muzzle of your gun.

 

[TexasAndy]

I use a Ted Cash adjustable measure. It goes from 0-120 grains and is marked in 10 grain increments on one side and 5 grains on the other. It's continuously adjustable, though, so you can set it at any point between the marks. Funnel Swivel Measure | TDC - Cash Mfg

Yes, I have this same measure and his smaller revolver one. Both superb products. But looking for something a bit different...I think.

 

[TexasAndy]

So I found this! First question is what is it? and can I use it while at the range for my front stuffers??

MVA Micrometer Adjust Scale.

 

[renegadehunter]

Looks like that MVA would do exactly what you want.
With that being said, set your measure at one of the marks, fill it to the top, and then dump the powder onto a scale and weigh it. Do this 20 times and see what the spread is.
I did this a while back and had around a 2.2 grain spread. Many folks will tell you a couple grains doesn't matter with BP.
If you really, really want to have your charges exactly where you want them every single time, then a scale is your best friend. It is best to find what weight to start at by using a volume measure first. And don't forget that subs can weigh quite a bit different than real BP. You wouldn't want a weighed load for Goex in the upper range and then use the same weight for Pyrodex.

 

[TexasAndy]

Looks like that MVA would do exactly what you want.
With that being said, set your measure at one of the marks, fill it to the top, and then dump the powder onto a scale and weigh it. Do this 20 times and see what the spread is.
I did this a while back and had around a 2.2 grain spread. Many folks will tell you a couple grains doesn't matter with BP.
If you really, really want to have your charges exactly where you want them every single time, then a scale is your best friend. It is best to find what weight to start at by using a volume measure first. And don't forget that subs can weigh quite a bit different than real BP. You wouldn't want a weighed load for Goex in the upper range and then use the same weight for Pyrodex.

It's not that I'm that concerned w/ precision but more about having the ability to try an 18 gr. or perhaps a 22 gr. charge without having to guess.

 

[hawkeye2]

So I found this! First question is what is it? and can I use it while at the range for my front stuffers??

MVA Micrometer Adjust Scale.

That scale could probably be used by itself but it is intended to be used with their Visible Black Powder Measure (link below), a copy of the old Belding & Mull measure which many think was the most accurate measure ever made. The measure is inserted into the boss on the bottom of the unit and the lever cycled to throw a charge. I have an original B&M and it's a quality measure, I can't comment on the MVA one as I have never seen one but they have a reputation of offering nothing except the best.

https://montanavintagearms.com/product/black-powder-measure/

 

[Musketeer]

Is that MVA adjustable thing closed at the bottom or does it fit over something else? If it's closed, I don't see why you couldn't use it like any other measure.

 

[Zonie]

The way I read the link, the measure measures just like any other black powder volume measure does from 9 grains on up to 125 grains. The only advantage it has is it can be adjusted in .001 increments. A little calculating based on the 7/16 internal diameter says that would adjust the load in increments of 0.4 grains per graduation.

It would need to be used with an accurate powder scale to figure out what the initial setting was delivering and then adjust from there.

All in all, IMO, it is an expensive toy that really doesn't do anything a simple adjustable powder measure + an accurate powder scale (which you need to have anyway) won't do.

 

[hawkeye2]

The MVA measure is closed at the bottom, basically a telescoping measure. The inner part slides for an approximate adjustment like most measures. The inner part also has fine threads on it's outside that engage the graduated collar which is used to make the fine adjustment and it's then locked by the thumbwheel.

 

[Boomerang]

The only way to get a real accurate measure would be measuring by weight. If you measure by volume, tapping the measure when it is full of powder will cause it to settle thereby changing the volume.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Just make your own marks on the measure you have. Divide the distance between the 10 grain increment marks by 10 & scribe lines that far apart & you can get volume measurements in 0ne grain increments. Without measuring each load on a scale that's about as accurate as you are going to get anyway. I think you will find it won't amount to any difference if you just estimated the distance between the scribed marks that are already there. You are overthinking it!!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm looking for options in a measure that will allow me to do smaller increments than just 5 grains. Do you fine fellows know of a product or perhaps have any ideas you can share?

May I ask why it is that you need to be measuring in one grain amounts? Black powder being so inefficient, it is not like smokeless powder where one can get significant differences in velocity when increasing or decreasing a charge by a few grains, or get significant results when the smokeless powder "thrown" varies by a grain from cartridge to cartridge.

LD

 

[nhmoose]

If he wants to spend $50 bucks let him.

Waste of money IMHO as 1-2 grain let alone .001 differences shot over my chronograph showed just a largening of the Standard deviation no actual gain or loss of velocity.

BUT more important no change in group size or placement this means no added points on the target.

 

[Bob McBride]

Guys who want that sort of precision typically weigh and then make their measure to fit their desired load as precise as needed. Competition bench shooters typically load in 1g or so increments. That sort of hair splitting doesn’t interest me but it seems be the norm among some. Enjoy the day your way.

 

[user 48679]

May I ask why it is that you need to be measuring in one grain amounts?

Black powder being so inefficient, it is not like smokeless powder where one can get significant differences in velocity when increasing or decreasing a charge by a few grains, or get significant results when the smokeless powder "thrown" varies by a grain from cartridge to cartridge.

+1

 

[TreeMan]

With all the variables in using blackpowder I’d guess that 0-5 grain differences are very unnoticeable except in a very small bore. Even then not much. When you consider fouling differences from shot to shot, seating pressure, humidity, irregular grain size in differing powders and other things I’d say it would be hard to conclusively find any evidence that 3 grains more or less of powder would make a difference. I can fill up a measure, tap it three times and add five more grains, tap it again and add another 5grains and still shoot the same point of aim. Sometimes I’ll fill up a measure and spill more than five grains trying to get it in the barrel and still not get a flyer. You’ll have more variances in velocity with a different quantity of lube from shot to shot than with minute amounts of powder charges.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Its been close to twenty years ago that I checked out measuring accuracy with a collection volume measures. Each measure was set at the marked 100 grain mark. The weights on the scale varied from 98 grains to 108 grains of GOEX FFg. I got similar results from 3fg only a little heavier. Settling by tapping the measure often added a grain or two to the result. For each individual measure the standard deviation was only a grain or two. With a bit of practice it could be held to a grain.

The take away from my little study is to select one measuring device for load development. A grain or so difference between loads makes little difference on target. However, if you believe it does and weighing loads to keep the weight of the charge within 0.1 grain for that elusive X enforces that belief, then it does.

 

[Hillbilly Delux]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101284828?pid=943305

 

[hawkeye2]

Those Lee dippers are almost indispensable for load development and inexpensive too. Everybody ought to have a set.