Middlesex Village Trading Co

[FlinterNick]

They usually are sent with no touch hole drilled and several have been brought to me to have this done. None were from Middlesex Village but from Veteran Arms. While crude the guns seemed solid and after a bit of work did fire well. As these were to be used by reenactors firing blank loads they did what they were supposed to do, Not sure if they would be up to full charges with patched ball. I've seen much worse from Spain, Brazil, Belgium and some of the eastern European countries. You get what you pay for.

The draw to Indian made arms sold by MTV and Veteran Arms is that your getting a better deal for the price. Indian Arms roughly sell for around 600-800 with shipping and taxes. The added work of the touch hole and any other gunsmithing work usually will run 40 an hour, up to around 1000-1200 now. You’re now up to the cost of a Rifle Shoppe kit or Pedersoli made Arm. Now if something on an Indian made arm fails, you’ve got a bigger issue because there simply are no spare parts for them. I had a friend whose frizzen was made of some type of junky steel that just wouldn’t hold carbon, so he had a casted copy made in 6150 steel, this cost him $50 for the part and $200 for the labor of installing it.

my only point here Is that Indian Arms are not necessarily cheaper, the only way they’re cheaper is if you buy one and let it sit around unused as a decoration.

Personally I like some of the Indian Made Arms by Loyalist, a few fellas in my group have the M1728 Charleville, its a nice one with work done to it. It needs some lock work every now and then, but this is common for reinactor muskets.

 

[nightwolf1974]

The local gun shops bad mouth him because they get all of his complaints.

You get what you pay for. You can't buy a Maverick and expect a Mustang........You can't pay $400 for a French Pistol and expect a $900 Pedersoli.

 

[springfield art]

I ordered three muskets from Veteran Arms years ago. Talked to the guy on the phone, and he responded to written things. Seemed like a fair guy. Never tried any other importers, but I'd think any of them would claim they had the "best" makers over there. Sources are no doubt a closely guarded secret. Who knows, maybe there's only ONE mfgr., serving all the Importers here in the US! The code to the gold room at Fort Knox is easier to access that information about the Indian factories!

 

[springfield art]

It's difficult anyway to find a absolute prefect reproduction.

Anyone who's read Craig Barry's excellent book on the Civil War repro muskets will know how deep into the details one can get regarding "authenticity".

 

[springfield art]

Indian guns are overall .... oversized. The locks are often chunky, not shaped right and the steel is poor quality. The stocks are made of teak Or rosewood, I’ve seen a few cut from a species of Asian Oak which is junk.

Loyalist arms makes their guns from rosewood which tends to be harder and heavier than walnuts or maples, is much better for gunstock uses than the later.

I thought rosewood was now a protected species kind of thing where the Gov't. regulates imports? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[FlinterNick]

I thought rosewood was now a protected species kind of thing where the Gov't. regulates imports? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I’m not sure, I know loyalist arms has told me they use rosewood for stocks and Ramrods. Its also on their website faqs.

There’s all kinds of rosewoods, some of the South American rosewoods are pretty expensive and rare.

 

[springfield art]

I’m not sure, I know loyalist arms has told me they use rosewood for stocks and Ramrods. Its also on their website faqs.

There’s all kinds of rosewoods, some of the South American rosewoods are pretty expensive and rare.

I guess it's the S. American ones that are restricted. Thanks!

 

[springfield art]

Check out Veteran Arms, they also import Indian made guns, been around for a while.

I got a Germanic musket, was kind of clunky, made it into a "canoe gun", short barrel, then sold. Never fired. Got a 1816 flint, was nice, never fired, traded it out to a period re-enactor, and had one other type I forget, never fired any of them! I personally believe the screamers claiming they're dangerous are a bit like chicken little; "The barrels are exploding, the barrels are exploding!" (My private opinion only.)

 

[OhioHawkeye]

Loyalist Arms has an excellent reputation and apparently so does Veteran Arms. Pretty much most people say to stay away from Middlesex specifically if ordering online. All of them sell Indian made guns (from India)

Agree, with your entire statement.
I have several weapons from both. Loyalist and Veteran Arms.
I had a firelock from Middlesex... sold it to someone who still has it and had good access to a High Quality gun smith who made it right for her at a minimal cost. Sadly that smith passed away in 2019. She will always keep that first firelock in memory of our friend. Anyway, I had 3 different smiths work on that thing from Middlesex yet it was never right for me. (I competitively shoot with them too) The arm was never up to my standards. The Loyalist and Veteran arms guns are. With adjustments of course as every gun needs.

Sadly, India is getting hit hard with the COVID-19 now. You'll find Loyalist has a backlog of orders, mine included. (others will to as they run out of stock)As the 2nd largest country by population in the world, they sadly are loosing people at a faster rate than even Italy, and I'm sure will top the US numbers as we are only the 3rd largest country. Pray for them, and Pray they don't get more contaminated and compromised shipments of vaccine that can't be used.

 

[springfield art]

Agree, with your entire statement.
I have several weapons from both. Loyalist and Veteran Arms.
I had a firelock from Middlesex... sold it to someone who still has it and had good access to a High Quality gun smith who made it right for her at a minimal cost. Sadly that smith passed away in 2019. She will always keep that first firelock in memory of our friend. Anyway, I had 3 different smiths work on that thing from Middlesex yet it was never right for me. (I competitively shoot with them too) The arm was never up to my standards. The Loyalist and Veteran arms guns are. With adjustments of course as every gun needs.

Sadly, India is getting hit hard with the COVID-19 now. You'll find Loyalist has a backlog of orders, mine included. (others will to as they run out of stock)As the 2nd largest country by population in the world, they sadly are loosing people at a faster rate than even Italy, and I'm sure will top the US numbers as we are only the 3rd largest country. Pray for them, and Pray they don't get more contaminated and compromised shipments of vaccine that can't be used.

I agree. You know, unless you need a very specific model, it's better to save up, buy a Pedersoli, etc., rather than nickle-and-dime for repairs and upgrades on an Indian model.

 

[FlinterNick]

I agree. You know, unless you need a very specific model, it's better to save up, buy a Pedersoli, etc., rather than nickle-and-dime for repairs and upgrades on an Indian model.

I refer to Indian made muskets as ‘fixer uppers’. Much like that of an older home purchase, or get what you pay for. If i

Most of the time, these muskets need about 300-500$’s of improvements to make them mechanically working and then additional defarbing to fix any appearance flaws In the stock or finished works.

By that time you’re up to the cost of a finished pedersoli Bess Or Charleville.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I have worked over many India guns from various importers. The town in India where these are made has many different "factories" Loyalist and Veteran get from a better factory than Middlesex/general etc. In general the guns are better from Loyalist and VA. Some models are made better than others and work better so it can depend what you are looking to buy.

In regards to making them mechanical my going rate for going thru a lock is $150. That may include reworking springs and depending the lock cutting and welding.

They are heavier but as a member here can attest they have been taken and proofed to German standards.

 

[firemanjim68]

As one who got ripped off by Pete.......stay away from him.
Go with Loyalist Arms.....better product, better customer service.
I'm happy with my Heavy Dragoon pistol and my Ranger musket.

They aint Pedersoli, but then Pedersoli dont sell these particular models anyway which is why I took the plunge on Loyalist.

 

[waksupi]

I had one come into my shop for examination. It didn't take me long to condemn it as unsafe to shoot, and sent it back to the company the same day tagged as such. There was only 1/4" of threads on the breech plug, not enough for my comfort!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I refer to Indian made muskets as ‘fixer uppers’. Much like that of an older home purchase, or get what you pay for. If i

Most of the time, these muskets need about 300-500$’s of improvements to make them mechanically working and then additional defarbing to fix any appearance flaws In the stock or finished works.

By that time you’re up to the cost of a finished pedersoli Bess Or Charleville.

In general, I can support your recommendation for a Pedersoli Bess over an India manufactured gun. However, if one wants a Long Land Pattern, no Pedersoli gun will meet that requirement. It's an India gun now or a Rifle Shop gun at some point in the distant future.

 

[OhioHawkeye]

I agree. You know, unless you need a very specific model, it's better to save up, buy a Pedersoli, etc., rather than nickle-and-dime for repairs and upgrades on an Indian model.

Yea, I"ve got several from Veteran Arms and Loyalist... fine guns and I haven't had to do a thing to the geometry to make them work. (a dozen all together)