Mike Brooks Type G, Caywood Wilson

[wahkahchimaol.com]

I am frequently looking on the internet at what appear to be superb pre Revolutionary War trade guns. These are the Wilson Type G and the Caywood Wilson Trade Gun. Am I correct that these represent historically accurate renditions of pre Revolutionary smoothbore trade guns and how do these compare with each other and with the Northstar West early trade gun? Call me clueless. Thanks for any info.

 

[Cruzatte]

I own a Caywood Wilson. It's a fine shooting gun, the lock works well. But for the purist there are a couple of things that could be changed. 1. The barrel is several inches too short, and 2. maple is your only choice in stock wood. It probably should be walnut, English walnut if one really wants to be particular. That alone would drive up the price considerably, I'm sure.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

3. It has an exterior coned touch hole.

I have one, my 1st flinter (bought off Mario) and I wouldn't part with it. Mike Rowe made the lock and it is fast, FasT, FAST!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Local walnut is readily available in Caywood country and should not affect the price. English, on the other hand, would. But, why? How 'authentic' do you want/need to get? Should all the parts be handmade by an apprentice in a dank, dark room at the back of an unheated castle in England? That would be 'authentic'.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Should all the parts be handmade by an apprentice in a dank, dark room at the back of an unheated castle in England? That would be 'authentic'.

That's where all of my parts are made! Except for the fact the castle is in Iowa and not england. :haha:
I won't compare my Carolina guns to the other guns,I'll let others do that. My barrels are copied exactly from an original carolina gun by John Getz and are 47 1/4" long. I also do some 42" on occasion. I also get barrels from Bob Hoyt. The barrels are engraved "LONDON" and have the correct British proof stamps along with the correct rear sight. I use black walnut, English walnut, and alot of beech. I've been making more guns out of beech lately than anything else. English walnut is maybe $30 to $50 more, all depends on what I have to pay for the wood. I use Davis early english locks. All my mounts are sheet brass, cut out by hand with a hack saw and engraved by hand to the correct pattern. The buttplate and thumb piece are nailed on with hand made square nails. Finished weight on these guns is 6 lbs.
These carolina guns will date as early as the 1740's.
No instant gratification with these, It will usually take 3 to 6 months on a carolina gun depending on my work load. I keep no parts in stock so when I get an order I have to order the barrel etc..... Authenticity was my goal when I started building these, not high production numbers.
There are two others I know of that build these, Jack Brooks and Clay Smith.

 

[tg]

this is not directed at anyone just where it ended up

" Should all the parts be handmade by an apprentice in a dank, dark room at the back of an unheated castle in England? That would be 'authentic''

often gun and gun parts building was a cottage indutry in Europe, the whole town of Tulle France was an "armory" of sorts with individuals making various parts in their homes or working in larger buildings making the parts they were responsible for and many of these parts were sent to the colonial for the use of builders there, during the rev War the imported parts supply likley dried up somewhat for obvious reasons and many builders were put to work making muskets for the rebel forces and the rifle building numbers would have likley dropped off noticably and it would seem that this rather long period of reduced rifle production may have effected the apprentice program to some degree, maybe even the evolution of the longrifle style/form may have been interupted? but I have no information to validate this theory, just a thought that came to mind.

 

[tg]

As for recomendations I woud put Brooks on top then NSW with Caywood last due to the HC/PC factor with Caywood, the have the type "C"/"D" thing pretty screwed up on their French gun description, (and the locks are very small), which causes one to wonder how close the product is if the promotional writing is not right

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Aha! The light dawns...so the Carolina guns could be as early as 1740's which makes them appropriate for militia in both F/I war and in Rev War? Thanks. That was what I was wondering.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

Mike, I've been drooling over your Carolinas, as well your NewEngland fowlers. What bore size do you build them in? Do you have a set stock dimmention or do you adjust to fit the client? I am taller than average and suffer from grass stained Knuckle syndrome oft times standard dimmentioned stocks are uncomfortable to shoot.

Snow

 

[Mike Brooks]

My Carolina guns are built from my precarved stock. It ends up with a 13 1/2" pull. Anything longer just doesn't look right.
I have read the Carolina guns were possibly as early as the 1720's, but the lock I use on these isn't that early so I stop at the 1740's with this gun as I offer it.
I'm only offering these guns in the white and finished these days.

 

[tom deinek]

Would it be terribly gauche of me to enquire what kind of price these finished, but in the white rifles are in today's market?

 

[Mike Brooks]

Would it be terribly gauche of me to enquire what kind of price these finished, but in the white rifles are in today's market?

I believe They are several hundred dollars more than the Caywood and NSW guns. $x,xxx finished and $x,xxx in the white. As I pointed out, my goal is authenticity with these, not large production numbers.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, I've been drooling over your Carolinas, as well your NewEngland fowlers. What bore size do you build them in? Do you have a set stock dimmention or do you adjust to fit the client? I am taller than average and suffer from grass stained Knuckle syndrome oft times standard dimmentioned stocks are uncomfortable to shoot.

Snow

OOPs, missed the bore size part. 20 bore is standard on the Carolina guns. I have made them in .58 and .60 too. NE guns I do in just about any bore size and barrel length above 42".

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have people complaining about this thread being advertisement. Moderators please feel free to modify this in any appropriate way. My intent was not advertisement, but just to answer asked questions. :v

 

[Stumpkiller]

Someone started a thread calling you out by name in the topic line. I have no issues, but the pricing should have gone via PT. I'll modify those bits and recommend others contact you via PT or your website.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Ok, thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

To me it's just great information. I've read Hamiltons' book...I have it sitting right here...but it's better to talk to the people who are actually physically trying to duplicate these guns. The details can tell us a lot...

 

[Mike Brooks]

I'm told there will be an article in MUZZLELOADER MAGAZINE this spring featuring Carolina guns. I just mailed off all the information I have on them to the writer last week.

 

[BillinOregon]

Mike: I for one will be watching for that article. Jut noodled around your Web site again and got all "itchy" for a Carolina.

 

[goon]

If you check out the trekking forum at the frontierfolk forums, you'll find a thread concerning trade gun use by colonists during the F&I war.