Mild steel knife + case harden?

[Stonevievneilson]

G'day All.
Here in Victoria Australia, I am having trouble sourcing 1084 carbon steel. There is only one supplier I can find and they have none in stock. Someone here posted a topic on case hardening mild steel to make files and I was wondering if anyone had tried to do it for blade blanks?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Cheers
Jonno.

 

[Black Hand]

Not really worth your effort. You can find alternate sources of steel that will work better than case-hardening mild steel. Even automobile coil & leaf springs are better (in my opinion) than messing with case-hardening blades....

 

[ZUG]

YUP --I agree --sharpen it once or twice and you'll have to case harden it again or the blade will be too brittle and crack on use :hmm: .

Go find a junk car and salvage some of it's coil or flat springs and give that a try. :v

 

[44-henry]

Under controlled conditions it is possible to make a usable knife out of mild steel using a deep carburizing process. I have even seen some references that make me think historically this might have been done with some inexpensive trade knives. Some years back I did some tests where we carburized mild steel knife blades and found that they did perform decently. My strategy at the time was to start with a profiled and contoured blade and than pack harden them for extended periods of time. In the thinner cross sections (such as on the edge) the carbon penetrated all the way through essentially turning these areas into high carbon steel. One added benefit was that the carbon did not pass through the thicker sections giving similar characteristics to laminated steel knives.

The test blades that we did were subjected to successful cutting tests using manila rope and also survived a bend at 90 degrees without breaking beyond a slight fracture at the cutting edge (they did stay bent however). So, in theory, it is possible. That being said it is a lot of work to make one like this and the cost of fuel and the time involved do not make it real practical. My interest was whether it could be done and I think I proved that it could, but I will stick with modern tool steels from now on.

 

[crockett]

Contact Texas Knifemakers Supply in Houston, TX. I think they'll ship it to you. Use good steel.

 

[Black Hand]

Contact Texas Knifemakers Supply in Houston, TX. I think they'll ship it to you. Use good steel.

You did notice he was in Australia...?

 

[mooman76]

I hear tell a leaf spring makes an excellent knife blade.

 

[Bo T]

If you are in to trying different processes that most probably were used centuries ago for many different applications, give it a try.
Also, take a look at old farm equipment, drills harrows, etc. The steel is usually 1040 - 1090 depending on time frame.

 

[Artificer]

That was a very informative post. Thank you.

Maybe 15 years ago, I purchased an early style Scottish Dirk Blade and Brass fittings from Track of the Wolf. Since I only get to work on "my stuff" from time to time, it took me about a year to fit the guard and get it ready for hardening. However, it was only then I found out it was mild steel and could not be correctly hardened. Now some guys finished these into complete dirks anyway, but I just could not see doing more work on a blade that could not be corrected hardened and tempered.

Maybe some day I will get a piece of good tool steel and make a good blade for the dirk and finish it.

Gus

 

[Stumpkiller]

In Australia perhaps you could source Chinese GB #85 (listed as an equivalent).

 

[coloradoclyde]

I thought 1095 was the preferred knife material... :idunno:

 

[Stonevievneilson]

Thanks for your responses fellas. I will look into the Chinese equivalent steel. And thanks for this forum. Gee I learn a lot from you all.
Cheers
Jonno.

 

[44-henry]

If I was really having a hard time finding tool steel I would look for an older file. Ought to be available most anywhere and the older ones are generally a decent, simple, high carbon steel. I have made a lot of knives from files over the years, at least until I found out how cheap good tool steel of known properties really was.

 

[Bo T]

It seems that many are moving towards 1084 or there abouts as the heat treatment is a tad easier.

 

[cal.43]

try "junkyard steel chart" at google and you will find a descriptions of steel you can easily get.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I hear tell a leaf spring makes an excellent knife blade.

Truck leaf spring steel is what Arkansas Master knifemakers use. They use new to avoid micro-cracks.

 

[Stonevievneilson]

Thanks for the tip on the junkyard steel chart. That's handy.

 

[Eterry]

If you are in to trying different processes that most probably were used centuries ago for many different applications, give it a try.
Also, take a look at old farm equipment, drills harrows, etc. The steel is usually 1040 - 1090 depending on time frame.

I've read where Hacker Martin robbed all the horse drawn road graders of springs to use as spring steel.
Come to think of it... most old road graders you see here are missing their springs..... coincident???

 

[ghostdncr]

I've made several patch knives over the years using this method. These were mostly the result of me finding a piece of nondescript mild steel and thinking, "hey, that looks kinda like a knife!" I'd just rough in the blade and then give it the Kasenit treatment, then finish it out and set it in a handle of some sort. I use one I made about fifteen years ago and it's holding up fine. It's the one shown as my profile pic.