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Military flints
- Thread starter bulletman
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Not sure I understand your question. Are you asking about the Revolutionary War or earlier/later? During the Revolution, the most common flintlocks were French muskets, captured English Besses, and locally-made American flint rifles. The Continental Army used (I believe) mostly 1728 and 1746 model muskets which were bought as surplus from the French. These guns were mostly made by either the St. Etienne or Charleville armories in France. In the early 1800's, the U.S. set up it's own armories in Springfield and Harper's Ferry, and continued to build essentially copies of the French muskets called the 1816 musket. The 1816 was made from 1816 to 1844. I believe this was the last "official" U.S. military flintlock. I'm fairly new to the field of Revolutionary War history, so some of my facts may be in error. I'm sure some of the other guys on the Forum will not hesitate to correct me (yeah Musketman and Stumpy, I's a-talkin' ta you!)! :shocking: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :thumbsup:
The 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle was, of course, rifled. This was the gun used by Louis and Clark's Corps of Discovery , but I don't know if it was ever issued to troops per se. I remember reading somewhere recently that either Lewis or Clark (don't remember which) may have actually carried a 1793 Springfield smoothbore musket instead. My earlier post was wrong. Apparently, Springfield was making copies of French muskets in the late 1700's. In any case, I don't know if any rifled flintlocks were ever issued to U.S. troops on a large scale. Maybe some of the other guys on the Forum will know. :thumbsup:
P.S. I don't think rifled arms really became popular for military use until the advent of the Minie Ball. I think rifles were considered too hard to load under combat conditions. The Minie was undersized and would load easily down a rifled bore. Upon firing, the skirt of the bullet would obturate or expand to fit the rifling. I read a book years ago called Rifleman Dodd by C.S. Forrester. The book is about a British infantryman during the Peninsular War (1808-1812). In this book, the main character carries a Baker rifle (.62 cal. rifled flintlock), and it describes him carrying a small mallet for hammering the ball down the rifled barrel :shocking:.
He used an undersized ball (which would defeat the purpose of the rifling) which would drop down the barrel until it became too fouled, at which point he'd start using the mallet. Forrester's books are usually very accurate as far as period military practices, so I wouldn't doubt that this was common practice for Brits armed with Baker's. I'd rather use a smoothbore! :shocking: :thumbsup:
P.S. I don't think rifled arms really became popular for military use until the advent of the Minie Ball. I think rifles were considered too hard to load under combat conditions. The Minie was undersized and would load easily down a rifled bore. Upon firing, the skirt of the bullet would obturate or expand to fit the rifling. I read a book years ago called Rifleman Dodd by C.S. Forrester. The book is about a British infantryman during the Peninsular War (1808-1812). In this book, the main character carries a Baker rifle (.62 cal. rifled flintlock), and it describes him carrying a small mallet for hammering the ball down the rifled barrel :shocking:.
He used an undersized ball (which would defeat the purpose of the rifling) which would drop down the barrel until it became too fouled, at which point he'd start using the mallet. Forrester's books are usually very accurate as far as period military practices, so I wouldn't doubt that this was common practice for Brits armed with Baker's. I'd rather use a smoothbore! :shocking: :thumbsup:
I'd argue that point. (I'd argue ANY point, whether I accepted it or not). Claude-
See! I knowed it'd be either Musketman or Stumpy who'd rain on ma parade! An' then, o' course, Stumpy has to add insult ta injury by a-usin' that there fancy new fangled keyboard o' his with all them fancy accents 'n' whatnot! :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:Seriously though, I'm glad you piped in. I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, and I'm just as eager to learn as anyone else. That's why I'm on the Forum. :thumbsup:
Speaking just of the US military arms, prior to the 1842 .69 cal. musket, almost all of the guns were flintlocks. According to Flayderman's Guide some of the Flintlock arms were:
The 1792 Contract Rifles. Approx .50 to .60 cal. rifle. (Secondary arm).
The 1795 Musket (Springfield & Harpers Ferry). 1795-1814 .69 cal smoothbore
The 1798 Contract Musket. .69 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1803 US Flintlock Rifle. Harpers Ferry. .54 cal rifle.
The 1807 US Flintlock Carbine. Springfield. .54 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1812 US Flintlock Musket. Springfield 1814-1816 .69 cal smoothbore
The 1814 US Flintlock Rifle. Contract: H. Deringer & R. Johnson. .54 cal Rifle.
The Model 1816 US Flintlock Musket, Springfield & Harpers Ferry. .69 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1817 US Artillery Musket. .69 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1819 Hall US Breach loading Flintlock. .52 cal. Rifled.
In this period of time, many States ordered a large quantity of similar arms designed to their own special requirements for their State Militia.
Most of these are considered Primary Issue weapons.
There are also a number of Secondary Issue weapons I didn't mention which were used by the US military and State Militias.
The 1792 Contract Rifles. Approx .50 to .60 cal. rifle. (Secondary arm).
The 1795 Musket (Springfield & Harpers Ferry). 1795-1814 .69 cal smoothbore
The 1798 Contract Musket. .69 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1803 US Flintlock Rifle. Harpers Ferry. .54 cal rifle.
The 1807 US Flintlock Carbine. Springfield. .54 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1812 US Flintlock Musket. Springfield 1814-1816 .69 cal smoothbore
The 1814 US Flintlock Rifle. Contract: H. Deringer & R. Johnson. .54 cal Rifle.
The Model 1816 US Flintlock Musket, Springfield & Harpers Ferry. .69 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1817 US Artillery Musket. .69 cal smoothbore.
The Model 1819 Hall US Breach loading Flintlock. .52 cal. Rifled.
In this period of time, many States ordered a large quantity of similar arms designed to their own special requirements for their State Militia.
Most of these are considered Primary Issue weapons.
There are also a number of Secondary Issue weapons I didn't mention which were used by the US military and State Militias.
The first regiment raised by Congress was a rifle regiment. It was both good and bad. Good because of the marksmen and bad because of they were very naughty. OK, undisciplined, unruly and generally obstreperous.
Turning to your question about military flintlock rifles, the British had the famous Ferguson breechloading rifle. Issued in limited quantities, they were used for only a brief period. There's also the Pattern 1776 rifle of which 1,000 were made and distributed. You may want to check out De Witt Bailey's British Military Flintlock Rifles. I picked up my copy at Colonial Williamsburg. It's well worth the ducats.
Some Germans jagers also had them but there is no set pattern as each principality issued what it could afford or liked. Mind you, not all jagers were rifle equipped either and some were light infantry who supported the rifle armed jagers.
The Americans did not have any pattern and both loyalist or Tory carried what they had at home.
Turning to the French, yes, they had them too and were among the first to issue rifles to some troops (mostly cavalry). I don't think any of these ever got to the Colonies.
Turning to your question about military flintlock rifles, the British had the famous Ferguson breechloading rifle. Issued in limited quantities, they were used for only a brief period. There's also the Pattern 1776 rifle of which 1,000 were made and distributed. You may want to check out De Witt Bailey's British Military Flintlock Rifles. I picked up my copy at Colonial Williamsburg. It's well worth the ducats.
Some Germans jagers also had them but there is no set pattern as each principality issued what it could afford or liked. Mind you, not all jagers were rifle equipped either and some were light infantry who supported the rifle armed jagers.
The Americans did not have any pattern and both loyalist or Tory carried what they had at home.
Turning to the French, yes, they had them too and were among the first to issue rifles to some troops (mostly cavalry). I don't think any of these ever got to the Colonies.
