Military Heritage India-made Fusil de Chasse

[Comfortably_Numb]

I wouldn't have even one if someone else paid for it.

 

[wiscoaster]

....
There are locks that work and locks that are works of art. Having one or the other is a choice dependent on your desires, wallet, your skills/tooling, and your realistic needs.

It doesn't have to be that way. There are locks that are at the same time both works of art and locks that work. At least, that's my opinion of Kibler's locks.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I wouldn't have even one if someone else paid for it.

So why shoot down someone who wants to portray an earlier time period and may not want to wait years and spend thousands? If I was doing a highland, boucaneer, ECW, Spanish, ect my options are essentially India or TRS. And with TRS you still need to find a gunsmith to at least build the lock. It's great for you that there are domestic options and hopefully in the future there will be more variety available. To badmouth the only option available is just mean.

 

[tenngun]

Built my first rifle in 1978 from good parts. I’m no expert but do a fair job. Bought a loyalist arms dog lock musket .76 caliber.
They sent it with the stock unfinished because I planned on painting it with milk paint in barn red. The teak did not take the paint well.
So I ended up piling it. Looks sort of like walnut.
Lock sparks like the forth of july
Fit is not as good as custom but on par with what I can do
Shoots center as well as any of my American made barrels
I’ll put it beside a perdersoli any day of the week for quality on the bench or on the target line.
Now I did have forearm wood to remove, but it’s no heavier then any long land besses I ever picked up
I will strongly recommend them

 

[springfield art]

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse here. How can you decide your as-yet unpurchased/unhandled/unfired FdC is going to be your “target gun”? Suppose you buy it and you can’t hit the barn door with it?
As always, experiment and don’t rush it.

I believe he meant, his 'target' meaning the target of his desire or purchase; at least that's how I read it, not that it was for target-shooting. He can clear us up!

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

So why shoot down someone who wants to portray an earlier time period and may not want to wait years and spend thousands? If I was doing a highland, boucaneer, ECW, Spanish, ect my options are essentially India or TRS. And with TRS you still need to find a gunsmith to at least build the lock. It's great for you that there are domestic options and hopefully in the future there will be more variety available. To badmouth the only option available is just mean.

I'm not bad mouthing, just giving my opinion. I own guns from 1670 through 2023. I always buy based on quality. If I have to save more or wait a period of time to get something quality, that's what I have to do, no big deal. I portray 2023, the period I live in. It's just the way I live my life.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I'm not bad mouthing, just giving my opinion. I own guns from 1670 through 2023. I always buy based on quality. If I have to save more or wait a period of time to get something quality, that's what I have to do, no big deal. I portray 2023, the period I live in. It's just the way I live my life.

What did you find of quality 1670's? I am most curious if it is less than double the price of an Indian piece? I'm sure others curious as well as it may be appropriate for GAoP.

 

[wiscoaster]

I believe he meant, his 'target' meaning the target of his desire or purchase; at least that's how I read it, not that it was for target-shooting. He can clear us up!

You got it. I think he was just funnin' a bit, anyhoo.

 

[Flinter 2]

For what it's worth I have several friends who like myself are M/L shooters as well as reenactors, while I've been fortunate enough to have obtained all of my custom flintlock rifles and smoothbores at reasonable cost over my many years in the M/L life.
However many of my friends a fellow reenactors have not been so luck and are forced to play catch up on limited budgets and a few have invested in India made period muskets and Fusils, and while I have to admit that the fit and finish of most of them do leave allot to be desired when placed side by side with high quality custom built long guns, but comparing a $600.00 hand built in India guns to Custom built examples by well known and respected period arms makers is not like comparing apples to apples from the same orchards.
In my opinion the examples of the India made guns is the yes quality does vary from maker to maker but overall all of them are close to period correct and virtually all of them have been shootable out of the box once the vent holes are drilled.
All of the ones that I've seen close up are not hard to look at and the finishes at worst are what one would expect to see during the era of a well used but cared for period piece, and all of them after a bit of tweaking shoot as well as most similar long guns in the field regardless of the maker.
A word about Pedersoli muzzle loaders, yes they look great, fit and finish is usually very nice (almost too nice, too refined), and they also suffer from quality control issues that sometimes require sending them back or seeing a gunsmith, their biggest problem is soft steel and heat treating issues.
I have no dog in this hunt, but for my money I'd invest in one of the India made guns before turning to Pedersoli.

 

[Some_Mook]

Bought a 1777 Charleville from Loyalist last year, looks fair as a wall hanger. Surprised I got away with it, but better to ask forgiveness than permission and SWMBO actually liked it, so I have my 1861 Springfield hanging on the other side of the header)

Had some spare time last weekend so I figured what the heck and took the barrel off, cleaned, marked and measured it then shot a proof load out of it in my back yard

Wish I has thought to take a video - I was a good 75 yards away from the thing when the fuse (supplied along with a ball from Loyalist when shipped) burned down. Son of a gun if it didn't ring my 18" gong hard when it shot, and not a bad hit considering I just kind of swag eye-balled the location of my garden cart from about 35 yards out

Now I'm going to have to cast some .662 balls and actually shoot the darn thing for real

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

What did you find of quality 1670's? I am most curious if it is less than double the price of an Indian piece? I'm sure others curious as well as it may be appropriate for GAoP.

I have no idea what GAoP is. I paid $1700 for this. It is published in three books that I know of. It came out of the Kieth Neal collection. As I said before, save your money and buy something of quality.
https://smg.photobucket.com/u/Gunmaker/a/5d791b9e-b0e4-402e-bc16-fb12138aed5e

 

[IanH]

Am I the only one who understood what he meant by "target rifle"?

 

[IanH]

It doesn't have to be that way. There are locks that are at the same time both works of art and locks that work. At least, that's my opinion of Kibler's locks.

I wrote "and", not "or".

 

[IanH]

I'm not bad mouthing, just giving my opinion. I own guns from 1670 through 2023. I always buy based on quality. If I have to save more or wait a period of time to get something quality, that's what I have to do, no big deal. I portray 2023, the period I live in. It's just the way I live my life.

I wouldn't have even one of YOUR rifles if someone else paid for it.

So why shoot down someone who wants to portray an earlier time period and may not want to wait years and spend thousands? If I was doing a highland, boucaneer, ECW, Spanish, ect my options are essentially India or TRS. And with TRS you still need to find a gunsmith to at least build the lock. It's great for you that there are domestic options and hopefully in the future there will be more variety available. To badmouth the only option available is just mean.

Peeing in people's breakfast cereal is an Olympic sport for some people, especially the ones who have no real experience with guns they wouldn't take if someone gave them.


I watched several 11BangBang episodes based on Ethan's MH Charleville and Bess. He actually shot the Charleville enough (about 2500 rounds) to wear out the case on the frizzen. He then used Cherry Red and a propane torch to re-case it and put it back into service and it sparked better than ever.

So the lessons are that MH guns work and work for a reasonably long period of time, and that expedient case hardening products do work, at least for a while. These are two things commonly spit on by "the experts". Common knowledge with India guns is strip the finish, reshape the stocks, defarb as needed/desired, refinish, replace the rammers, and thoroughly polish, clean, and oil/grease all the working parts.

 

[David Y. Snellen]

Dear Sir,
I have owned Military Heritage, Middlesex village and Loyalist Arms. I still own 2 Loyalist muskets. The MH just was not finished as well and had a ridiculous trigger pull. In my opinion, Loyalist is the only way to go for Indian imports.
David

 

[S.Kenton]

You got it. I think he was just funnin' a bit, anyhoo.

Hey I have a nice jackie brown fowling piece im going to let go in the near future. It has an L&R Queen Ann lock, rice 42” barrel and all steel furniture.. I’ve reworked the Jackie Browness out of it.. it’s good to go.

 

[wiscoaster]

I wrote "and", not "or".

You wrote:

... There are locks that work and locks that are works of art. Having one or the other is a choice dependent on your desires, wallet, your skills/tooling, and your realistic needs.

Implying a choice had to be made between "locks that work" and "locks that are works of art" and one could have "one or the other", which is what I disgreed with by my comment that one could have both.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I wouldn't have even one of YOUR rifles if someone else paid for it.



Peeing in people's breakfast cereal is an Olympic sport for some people, especially the ones who have no real experience with guns they wouldn't take if someone gave them.


I watched several 11BangBang episodes based on Ethan's MH Charleville and Bess. He actually shot the Charleville enough (about 2500 rounds) to wear out the case on the frizzen. He then used Cherry Red and a propane torch to re-case it and put it back into service and it sparked better than ever.

So the lessons are that MH guns work and work for a reasonably long period of time, and that expedient case hardening products do work, at least for a while. These are two things commonly spit on by "the experts". Common knowledge with India guns is strip the finish, reshape the stocks, defarb as needed/desired, refinish, replace the rammers, and thoroughly polish, clean, and oil/grease all the working parts.

You don't want one of my guns? I think I'm going to have a cry now.

 

[PathfinderNC]

I was going to ignore this thread, but it’s just getting zesty

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
We debate India-made guns and other commercial repros a lot. In the thread linked below, I describe fixing a Miroku Bess lock and 2 from India-made guns. One of the India products is sold as a fusil de chasse. I don't know who the retailer was. The thread shows photos of the stock and components as well as the lock.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/fixing-locks.165922/
I am glad someone like Commodore Swab is willing to work them over because for many folks they are their only affordable options. Personally, I don't want to have anything to do with them but I have many friends who own them and I am pathologically inclined to help. However, I also don't care anymore to work over Pedersolis or Mirokus either except to salvage what I can and use those parts to produce much more authentic and higher quality guns. That said, I understand completely the dilemma many reenactors and living history folks are in given there are very few timely, affordable, and authentic firelocks available. I do what I can but I admire CS and others like him who attempt to better a bad situation.

New Reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/a-pedersoli-brown-bess-kit.147669/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...nto-a-dublin-castle-short-land-musket.138872/
dave