Military Heritage Products

[HistoryBuff]

Does anybody here have any experience with Military Heritage Products? I am interested in their sea service Brown Bess or their soon to be released "Dog Lock" musket.

Thanks,
HistoryBuff

 

[Rebel]

Hey somebody that knows how want to show him where the post about this is with the pictures of the breechplug that Daryl posted? I don't know how to get them from where they are to here. I really need to figure out how to do that.

 

[musketman]

Here is one of the threads about the Military Heritage gun...

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbthr...mp;page=0#32379

 

[Rebel]

Thank ya kindly birthday boy. :crackup:

 

Incidently, I was told by one of the other outfits that imports the Indian Guns, that all the breeching for all Indian guns is done by a separate, single company, due to quality problems. If that is true, then Military Heritage guns are breeched at the same place as all the others.
: The importing companies are very tight-lipped on technicalities, even those who profess being BP gunsmiths. It took 3 weeks of bantering back and forth to get that information.
: BTW - all of the French Muskets, if represented accurately, are the same whether from Mil Heritage or Middlesex. Compare them yourselves, they are the SAME pictures of the SAME guns. They also appear to be head and shoulders above the Besses for quality. I would guarantee as much as possible, that they are made by a different company than makes the Besses- for either, perhaps.

 

[CrackStock]

Buff,

I own a Military Heritage 2nd Model (Short Land Pattern) Bess. I like it quite well, but my intended use was for Rev War activities which involve blanks. At the time I was not intending it for shooting live loads. However, it seems a lot better than I had expected.

I had heard some tales of early problems and endured a long lecture from a particular gun vendor at an event until I walked back to my tent and retrieved it for his examination. He reversed his tune immediately -- specially after checking the depth of the plug and location of the breechface. He had gone on in detail how the plug only went in a half inch, but this one extends to the wedding band (as I understand is correct) and is therefore ample depth. The only question is the quality of the threads and barrel steel.

I am intending to unbreech it and check the threads from the inside for myself before I begin shooting any pprojectiles.

If you need further info -- let me know.

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

Good idea, checking out the threads. I would appreciate your telling us if the threads are full of BP fouling. The thread length on the vent side on my Sea Service, was .542" long an on the opposite side, .556". There was a .180" long gap between the end of the plug and the end of the barrel's threads. This is inexcusable. Military Heritage said it is what you get for a cheap ($720.00) my cost, non custom gun. They claim to have measured a Pedersoli at a full 1/4" gap between the plug's face and the end of the threads. THAT is inexcusable as well.

 

[All Hell]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and very interested in this thread. I would like to hear from others here who received one of these and if the plug issue may be isolated.

 

You don't have to worry about the barrel steel. It is as strong or stronger than normal unhardened and untempered 4140 and especially 1080, which is common for ML barrels by some makers.
: On the Mil-Heritage guns, and the ones form Loyalist and Middlesex, there is a flash plate between the tang and the barrel's butt end. Why? Because this is a strange piece of apparatus, the fact that all three suppliers guns have them shows they are probably breeched at the same place.
: Because mine was on the market, shows there is no quality control. The real queston is: how do you tell from the outside if the musket they send you is OK? If it is't, you have to pay shipping AGAIN to return it.
: We desperatly need a maker to manufacture a descent musket for a reasonable price. If Investarms can make and Lyman sell the GPR for less than $400.00- why can't they make a plain bloody musket for $500.00 that is properly breeched and has decent threads on swivels, locks, etc?
: Perhaps a writing program needs to be started, to get them produce these guns that we desperately need.

 

[All Hell]

I was reading in another thread that a guy who bought the 1st model Bess had his checked by a gunsmith and he said the breech was okay? Maybe it is the sea service guns only? I'm really hoping here since I really don't want to dish out an extra 200+ for a pedersoli.

 

haaaa AH welcome to our little corner of the world , glad to see you signed in , a lot of real good folks here that can help you with most anything you want
Again welcome

 

[All Hell]

Hiya Captchee, thank you for pointing me here. Seems like a nice place. :thumbsup:

 

[riarcher]

Daryl,
One of them "not-fer-nuttin' things". After close scrutiny of Heritage's and Middlesex's I've noticed several DIS-simularities. The frizzen spring is different, frizzen shape is also different. Going through all the photo's I've found several areas that are "pictorally" different. I have to think these are not the same weapons. However, I honestly can't say either is "better" than the other either.
I've already "tried" to "talk" with heritage (and I think you remember my "take" on that?). I'm planning on asking some real "blunt" and to the point, questions with Middlesex on their 1756 version. (Musketman & others, I'll be mentioning this site as a ref. if you don't mind??????)
Basicly, let the good honest men step forward. Looking for honesty. Basicly it (could be) an unauthorised "product test".
Would that be alright with the administrators?
Gary (R.I.Archer)

 

[All Hell]

I called and spoke with someone on the phone at Military heritage and he claimed it was just a screw up on that gun and that they did test it using 200 grains of powder and two balls several times and have not noticed a problem. Just forwarding what he said, please don't attack the messenger.

I think I'm going to give them a shot and see what I get. I'm going to order the first model Bess and I'll report back to you all. I'll pull the plug and attempt pictures before I send it back, if I have to. Either way I'm out of money I didn't want to spend extra or I saved 200+. I've got a couple of WW2 and WW1 rifles coming soon, so what the heck, they'll keep me busy while I straighten this out if I have to.:m2c:

Wish me luck. :hmm:

 

[All Hell]

Riarcher, what did the military guy say and how'd he come across to you? I missed your post about it being new here.

 

[CrackStock]

I looked around quite a bit and asked a lot of questions before I purchased my DG/MH 2nd Land (Short) Pattern.

Several Rev War units had purchased them in numbers of 10+. They had a few complaints from early production -- mostly involving locks and springs. They made other orders and the more recent ones were better. None of the complaints involved the barrel steel or breeching.

If you have questions, you can contact Military Heritage directly at:
R. Henderson <[email protected]>

or visit the site at:
http://www.militaryheritage.com

I have corresponded with him and will post the text of one question here:

My Inquiry <<< Greetings,

I am interested in one of your 2nd model short land pattern muskets. Specifically, I am a shooter first and re-enactor second. I am only interested in a gun that is safe and reliable for shooting.

Are your lock and barrel components up to this usage?



Their Response >>>

Our muskets are designed to handle a normal live and blank firing. The barrel wall thicknesses are actually greater than muskets from companies like Pedersoli.

Hope this answers your questions.

Regards,
[url] Militaryheritage.com[/url]

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

If you are talking about the British Bess models, yes, they are different, however they've used some of the same pictures of the French models (1717 particularly) as MilHeritage - as least I saw the same pictures at each place of that model.

 

[riarcher]

ALL HELL,
I believe it was around last June/July I placed an order with M.H. for a 1756 version. I asked conformation of my order and expected delivery date. Their hours conflicted with my direct calling during "buisness hours". I recieved by internet from Henderson what could of been "viewed with discression" (?). None were in stock. Offered a sea service musket at a reduced price. I declined the offer (heart set on the 1756).
All in all,,, they seemed like a small one man shop (know they are not) but the lack of what I view as "do-able customer service" shut me off.
What I was looking for (and still am) is something I can modify into something a Patriot may have acquired and modified to personal taste (ie; Revolutionary "sportsterization" of a "liberated" British weapon. (means I'll hack the manure out of it-?)
STILL LIKE IT! And will probably order one in the very near future. However, Long before I drill the hole or fire it, it'll be broken down. If I have any problems with (machined) parts it all goes together and back to them. My background as a machine designer and builder gives me an idea of what will hold, and what may not (I'll progress from that point). I'm actually just looking for a good foundation so the roughness and kind of finish may not be of the same importance as it maybe to most. As long as I have room to work (sort of speak) It'll be acceptable. I don't want any "BLACK POWDER ONLY" stamped anywheres, nor do I want to see "made in", and the such.
I'll take the chance and go from there.
WHY? the challenge. :youcrazy:
Only others are tooo $$$$ for what I'm planing to do. :cry:

 

[All Hell]

This will be my first flintlock, not my first BP gun. I also work on and restore WW2 and previous firearms, so I think I can manage to check it for safety. If it is unsafe it goes back and I'll just pony up for a different one. Who makes Besses besides pedersoli?

I just want a reasonable facsimile of a brown bess and from what I have been reading the pedersoli ain't it. I keep seeing reenactor groups talk of having to modify pedersolis to be authentic. Seems many reenactors are happy with the authenticity of the MH weapons, so that is good enough for me. If the wood work is too rough I can just strip, sand and refinish to an appropriate look. For a savings of 200+ dollars I'm willing to take a chance. Hopefully you and I can get our muskets and either post here showing that Daryl's was an isolated case or we all need to stay the heck away from the Indian guns. :thumbsup:

 

[Rebel]

If you haven't already placed the order you might want to try Middlesex Village Trading Company. They sell the Bess for less than MH and include the bayonet, sling, flashguard, and hammerstall with them.