Militia Musket with Ketland Lock

[vtbuck223]

I recently picked up what appears to be an early militia musket with a Ketland & Adams lock converted from flintlock to percussion. The barrel shows obvious signs of having previous marks filed off and marks added. There is also a very deep impression of an L on the barrel next to the drum. I'm guessing this may have been a Massachussetts militia musket. I know it was not uncommon for them to have Ketland locks. Any thoughts?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I cannot comment about the barrel and stock but the lock probably was made between 1820-1822. The "W" might stand for Walter, which was Adams' first name. He was in partnership with Ketland between 1814-1822 (according to the listing in Baily and Nie's book on Birmingham gunmakers).

dave

 

[vtbuck223]

Dave....thanks for the response....it does look like a "W" in the photo...but looking at it in person....I'm pretty sure it is actually the bottom of the "&" symbol. Nobody has any ideas on the deeply stamped "L"...I'm just guessing that it might be a proof mark for Luke Harrington...but he usually put LH on the barrel...so why just an "L" and why there?

 

[dave_person]

Hi VT,
The ampersand would be more typical for sure. The lock was then likely made between 1820 and 1822 by Ketland and Adams.

dave

 

[flintriflesmith]

There is a chance that the L is related to the percussion conversion --- especially if it was done while the gun belonged to some government at the time.

 

[vtbuck223]

I really want to get one of the books that deals with these muskets. I am looking at 2 books by George Moller and trying to determine which might be better....American Military Shoulder Arms Vol.II or Massachusetts Military Shoulder Arms. Does anyone recommend one of these over the other or do they contain much of the same information?

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Moller's American Military Shoulder Arms Vol.II would be by far the best. It is and will remain a classic with accurate information on all military flintlock longarms used by the national and state governments from the post-Revolutionary era until the beginning of the percussion era. Moller always does good work so the other is good as far as it goes but it has nowhere near the information of American Military Shoulder Arms.

Of course then you'll need Volume I..... And when it finally comes out you'll really need Vol. III on the percussion weapons of the US and state troops. *sigh*

 

[vtbuck223]

Moller's American Military Shoulder Arms Vol.II would be by far the best. It is and will remain a classic with accurate information on all military flintlock longarms used by the national and state governments from the post-Revolutionary era until the beginning of the percussion era. Moller always does good work so the other is good as far as it goes but it has nowhere near the information of American Military Shoulder Arms.

Of course then you'll need Volume I..... And when it finally comes out you'll really need Vol. III on the percussion weapons of the US and state troops. *sigh*

Thanks....that's very helpful to know. I will start with vol. 2 as this is my greatest area of interest....but you are right...I think the other volumes may be in my future as well.

 

[Adam Lee]

Moller's American Military Shoulder Arms Vol.II would be by far the best. It is and will remain a classic with accurate information on all military flintlock longarms used by the national and state governments from the post-Revolutionary era until the beginning of the percussion era. Moller always does good work so the other is good as far as it goes but it has nowhere near the information of American Military Shoulder Arms.

Of course then you'll need Volume I..... And when it finally comes out you'll really need Vol. III on the percussion weapons of the US and state troops. *sigh*

I also appreciate the book suggestions, T.P.! - I depend on those of you with experience in this research area to inform my further study of historic firearms.

V/R
Adam

 

[Tumblernotch]

That is an odd piece. The stock looks like a M1816 at the butt end (no comb), it has a separate sling stud at the trigger bow like the earlier models, but it was mortised for this lock or one shaped like it, obviously not for a M1816 lock. The double fore-end band appears to be a scroll type like on the M1835 and M1842. The nearest thing I can find is the Special Model 1795 which had a similar shaped lock and the swivel stud and no comb. I don't think there were very many of those made, probably less than a dozen since it was a pattern arm, unless of course a private contractor used it as his model for a state contract. :hmm:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

KR, it is a variant of the New England Militia Musket made in the late period of production for that type. It was not made to any particular pattern nor was it made on Federal or state contract, it is strictly a private purchase item. These were often made with surplus parts and certain attempts to look like but not to meet the standard pattern Federal model. Whatever the civilian customer wanted to meet his state militia's requirement. It is a nice one.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I've read a little about the private purchase makers but certainly not enough to know anything. You can see the influence of the US models in this though. This is a nice one for sure.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Well, there isn't much written about the New England Militia Muskets so not too much to find really. It is surprising because they are so common. At one time, the thought was that they were all fashioned after the Brown Bess and that pattern is certainly the most common, they are simply a lighter weight and often slimmer Bess of smaller (about .69) caliber.

There has recently been interest in the fact that a fair number are of the US Charleville pattern styled after the muskets made at the US Armories and by contractors and they often make use of parts declared surplus by the Federal government or over-runs from contractors, some acquired "on the sly", so to speak. There have been a few Charleville style New England Militia Muskets posted on these forums over the last few years demonstrating the use of US M1795 barrels complete with US proof marks. It is a fascinating subject, there are quite a few examples of these "head scratchers" out there.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I've run across a few of this type in my travels over the years and until I found out about contractors doing these private sale deals I was left scratching my head. I've also seen several cobbled together from parts muskets that were obviously put together by someone for their own use or later by someone hoping to sell a "rare" piece. This one is obviously a well made original.

 

[vtbuck223]

I must say that I really like New England militia muskets and particularly in the Charleville/Springfield pattern. Regrettably, I own only one other....and here is a picture of it. I must say that after having purchased it and done the research with the books and information that I could find....I put it on my wall believing that it was a US Model 1816 that was made in the transitional period from the 1812 due to the slight variations...and I reasoned that the lock had just been changed at the time of conversion. It was by accident on another site that JV Puleo and TP in particular opened my eyes to the reality of these Militia muskets. It was a very informative post. I believe that it was JVP that recommended the book on Mass. militia muskets by Moller...but unfortunately every time a get a little extra money I buy a gun instead of the book. :idunno: This particular militia musket still has all the proper Springfield markings on the barrel.

 

[Tumblernotch]

What threw me on the first poster's pictures was although it otherwise looked like a first pattern M1816, it was obvious that the stock was mortised for a different lock. It's similar in shape to a M1795, but the lack of a comb and different placing of the band springs pretty much threw that idea out the window. Plus the fact that the double fore-end band looks to be the same as that on the M1835 and 42 muskets (as well as the French M1777). I haven't read the books about the New England militia muskets, but it looks to me that some makers bought parts from other armories and shaped their stocks to fit available locks and hardware. I know that the Ordnance Dept. sold many surplus obsolete, damaged and foreign arms early on, even before the big sales in the 1840's and that many parts were available to be fitted up into serviceable arms for private sale and militia sales. That's a pretty good looking piece you have there.

 

[vtbuck223]

Based on what I learned previously....in addition to Springfield Armory selling rejected and obsolete parts... government contractors on occasion sold fully inspected parts, especially barrels, to private makers for militia muskets. Apparently...this became a necessity for these contractors to stay in business but at the same time was a point of contention for the Armory. Again...I'm only reporting what I learned from others...but I trust their knowledge concerning this...otherwise I wouldn't pass it on. I am also convinced that few people really understand the particulars of these muskets.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I'm sure that what you have heard is right. The two National Armories supplied pattern arms for the contractors ever since the 1808 Militia Act. And several large contractors made and sold parts to other contractors who didn't have large enough capacity and even in some cases no capacity for producing their own parts during the Civil War.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Guys,
On another bulletin board, there is a thread that included a link to a website called sheaff-ephemera.com that has a page showing old militia notices from early 19th century states of New Hampshire, Mass, and New York. In the notices, the militia soldier is required to present himself along with his own musket and accessories. Those muskets had to meet some simple standards for length and bore but that appears to be all. Thus, there must have been a market for "militia muskets" supplied by local gunsmiths.

dave

 

[vtbuck223]

Dave....thanks for the link....those are pretty cool....hmmmmm...a whole other area of collecting possibilities......wouldn't mind having one on the wall next to the muskets.....