Minie Ball Size for Chiappa 3 Band P53

[concretus]

Hello,
After trading and selling a few items I acquired an Armisport/Chiappa 3 band P53… I know it’s not a Pedersoli defarbed model but it in like new condition and by the look of the bore, has never been fired. I have some .570 and.575 r/b to shoot through it but I’d like to shoot minies as well. I miced the bore at the lands and was getting readings of .579-.580…I had a .576 minie laying around and noticed it went into the muzzle with no resistance. So, I dropped it into the bore and it slid all the way to the breech, then tilting the rifle, the minie came out. So I guess I need to find a minie with a larger diameter… How much resistance should there be when loading a minie into the rifle? Also, what kind of seasoning (if any) should I do to the bore prior to firing it? Thanks for looking..,

 

[bpflint2007]

Good question, following since my next rifle will be something that shoots minie balls.

 

[Trot]

If your measurements are correct, you are going to want around .578/ .579. The bore needs no seasoning, just lube on the minie ball. Many shooters use an olive oil/beeswax mixture. Once you determine the exact size minie you need, a sizing die is your best bet to keep a consistent size.

 

[satwel]

Sounds as if your .576 minie is too small but the only way to know for sure is to shoot some and see what happens. The minie I shoot in my Enfields will also drop all the way down a perfectly clean barrel. After the first shot however they seat with the weight of the ramrod. After three or four shots I have to start pushing them down. Only through experimentation will you find what shoots best for your rifle. Remember to use the purest lead you can find if you mold your own minie balls. FWIW I started with an olive oil/beeswax lube but then switched to a mutton tallow/beeswax combination and found I could shoot longer before I had to clean the bore. Experiment with different lubes, ball diameters and powder charges. That's part of the fun.

 

[barracudadave67]

The only accurate way to measure bore diameter, is with pin gages. A minnie of "pure soft lead" should be sized to .001-.002 under bore diameter, and the minnie should slide down the BBL with just the weight of the ramrod.

You can get a few pin gages from .575,.576, .577, .578, .579, .580, for around $5-6.00 apiece. you don't have to buy a whole set, like some guys think. OR
If you have a machine shop near you ask them if they will check it for you, with pin gages. I would just take the BBl to them, not the whole musket. When you find what the largest pin gage that wil go in the muzzle is (example: .577 fits, but .578 will not) size your minnie to .576-.575.

You can get sizers at Northeast Trade Co. Lodgwood Mfg. and S & S Firearms. The latter two have sizers the will fit in unmentionable loading presses.

A good starting powder load would be 45-60 grns of 2F, or 3F blk powder.

These basic "minnie ball" loading/shooting processes are time prooven in The NSSA, and the ACWSA competition.

Dave AKA Rebel Dave

 

[concretus]

Thank you all for the valuable information!!!

 

[concretus]

Well after a trip to the range this afternoon it was determined this Enfield does not like lead round balls well… Using .570” size lead balls and .015” lubed patch it shot an acceptable 2.5” group @ 50yds…BUT the group was at 10:00 just outside the black of an SR-1 target with a 6:00 hold… Then at 75 yds I was aiming at six o’clock approx 10” to the right of the black and the POI was at 9:00 just outside the black for a 3”-3 1/2” group…these groups were with 35gr of FF Triple 7… That charge was determined to be the most accurate starting at 60gr and working down… Also ran a couple of dry patches down the bore between shots…So now it off to the machine shop, call in a favor and get some minie(s) to try out… Is there anything that can be done for adjusting wind age?

 

[dave951]

Well after a trip to the range this afternoon it was determined this Enfield does not like lead round balls well… Using .570” size lead balls and .015” lubed patch it shot an acceptable 2.5” group @ 50yds…BUT the group was at 10:00 just outside the black of an SR-1 target with a 6:00 hold… Then at 75 yds I was aiming at six o’clock approx 10” to the right of the black and the POI was at 9:00 just outside the black for a 3”-3 1/2” group…these groups were with 35gr of FF Triple 7… That charge was determined to be the most accurate starting at 60gr and working down… Also ran a couple of dry patches down the bore between shots…So now it off to the machine shop, call in a favor and get some minie(s) to try out… Is there anything that can be done for adjusting wind age?

What "RebelDave" said is spot on. I'm also a N-SSA competitor and I shoot these critters in competition.

For a sampler of minies there is only ONE source I trust that they'll be properly cast from PURE lead and that's Bullets

As for your sights. Don't mess with them until you get a good load. Issue sights from the period were designed to shoot about 18in high at 100yd and the soldier was trained to aim at center mass, aka, the belt buckle so a hit 18in high at 100yd was not a problem.

Next, get some real black powder. Subs generally don't play too nice with minies. I shoot Swiss in competition with RWS caps and use beeswax/lard as my bullet lube. Powder charge doesn't have to be at service levels and service charge generally isn't the most accurate. Once you get this in balance the way Minie designed the system, you can shoot till you run out of ammo, shoulder or daylight, whatever comes first.

 

[concretus]

Thanks for the direction….Right now my LGS only has Scheutzen…Will that be okay?

 

[dave951]

Thanks for the direction….Right now my LGS only has Scheutzen…Will that be okay?

Yup. Get RWS caps if at all possible. A close second choice is Schuetzen. Avoid CCI caps as they are designed for blanks.

 

[concretus]

Okay thank you!

 

[barracudadave67]

Grafs has Schuetzen in stock. But you will have to pay a hazmat fee.

Dave AKA Rebel Dave

 

[concretus]

Okay I was able to obtain pin gauges from a machinist friend of mine. They are a couple of inches long. Sorry for the dumb question…I just insert them in the bore with the ability to pull them out, correct? I don’t drop them in for fear they’ll hang up in the bore and gouge it???

 

[dave951]

Okay I was able to obtain pin gauges from a machinist friend of mine. They are a couple of inches long. Sorry for the dumb question…I just insert them in the bore with the ability to pull them out, correct? I don’t drop them in for fear they’ll hang up in the bore and gouge it???

Here's how I do it. Find which one is insanely loose and rattles around in the bore. Put it in first and push it in a bit with your finger. Reason- if one of the ones you're using to measure with gets stuck, you can turn the gun muzzle down and it'll slide down the bore and tap the stuck one out. Next, just using very gentle finger pressure, find which one just slips into the bore and which one just starts to slip in the bore but do not force either one. If the barely fit is .578 and the next one that has some resistance is .579, then your bore is .578+ and not quite .579. In that case, get a sizing die at .578. The process is really quite easy and you'll only have to do it once.

 

[concretus]

Makes sense.. Thanks!!!

 

[ZUG]

I also have a Chiappa 3 band P53 Enfield that I purchased new about 5 years ago and it is finished very nicely and shoots well (40-45 gr of 2F GOEX) - better than me. My bore measures 0.580" and luckily my Lyman mini mold drops the minie out at 0.579" to 0.580" depending on the lead I am melting at the time. I size the minie @ 0.578" - 0.579" using a homemade sizer that is mainly use to even out the skirt.

 

[concretus]

I also have a Chiappa 3 band P53 Enfield that I purchased new about 5 years ago and it is finished very nicely and shoots well (40-45 gr of 2F GOEX) - better than me. My bore measures 0.580" and luckily my Lyman mini mold drops the minie out at 0.579" to 0.580" depending on the lead I am melting at the time. I size the minie @ 0.578" - 0.579" using a homemade sizer that is mainly use to even out the skirt.

Good to know they shoot; thanks...Where is your point of impact in regards to your point of aim?

 

[concretus]

Okay; I got the pin gauges and it seems that a .580" gauges fits but a .581" will not freely.
* Should I call it a .580" bore?
* So what diameter bullet should I consider? I don't really want to cast bullets.
* Do I look for someone who casts the exact diameter or do I look for one .001" larger and resize them?
* Soooo, if that is the case, where can I find a bullet sizer for that diameter; preferably one that I can use in a standard reloading press?

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Good to know they shoot; thanks...Where is your point of impact in regards to your point of aim?

Mine shoots 10" high at 50 yards. 4 O'Clock hold. at 100 yards, it is 2" high, same hold with 45 grains and a tight minie ball. 1.5" group.

 

[dave951]

Okay; I got the pin gauges and it seems that a .580" gauges fits but a .581" will not freely.
* Should I call it a .580" bore?
* So what diameter bullet should I consider? I don't really want to cast bullets.
* Do I look for someone who casts the exact diameter or do I look for one .001" larger and resize them?
* Soooo, if that is the case, where can I find a bullet sizer for that diameter; preferably one that I can use in a standard reloading press?

1) .579 is your target size.
2) Bullets- Lodgewood. Ask for .580
3) NE Trader is a N-SSA member. Call John and ask for .579 sizer to fit a reloading press with pusher