Minie Balls in TC Rifles?

[Mebailj]

Can 45 and 50 caliber Minie balls as sold by companies such as Track of the Wolf be safely and practically used in Thompson Center 45 and 50 caliber rifles with 1:48 twists? How about hawken type rifles with 1:66 twists?

 

[Larry Akers]

These twists are for round ball. Elongated bullets require faster twists to stabilize. The longer the bullet, the faster the twist needs to be. Depending on your accuracy requirements the 1:48 may shoot a short (close to 1 calibre long) bullet ok. The 1:66 is definitely round ball.

 

[Vaino]

Seeing most of the TC rifles are 1:48 w/ shallow groove rifling, they should possibly shoot the Minies OK depending on the dia. of the Minie. Buy some and find out and let us know.

Bbls made for PRBs w/ approx. 1:66 also have the rifling too deep and obturating the grooves would be difficult if not impossible w/ a Minie ....it's just not the twist that must be considered. ....Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

Can 45 and 50 caliber Minie balls as sold by companies such as Track of the Wolf be safely and practically used in Thompson Center 45 and 50 caliber rifles with 1:48 twists? How about hawken type rifles with 1:66 twists?

The "safely" issue is why I tried them once and decided against using them ever again. The minie/bullet projectiles are not patched but lubed. They can slide towards the muzzle and leave large air gaps between the charge and projectile. That is dangerous. IMHO there is no reason to even try them. Stick with what the rifle was originally designed to use, a patched round ball.

 

[hawkeye2]

As Rifleman1776 said the mini moving off the powder charge while hunting is a big concern and can lead to a bulged barrel. The mini is an exception to the twist rule and will shoot well with a slow twist. I have 4 Hoyt lined barrels which are tack drivers. They are 1 in 66" which he claims is his most accurate (.58) barrel for minies. The original U.S. rifle muskets were 1 in 72" and shoot very well. The depth of the rifling, fit of the mini and the lube used are the most important things.

 

[Vaino]

Have had conicals move off the powder charge and to eliminate the constant checking as to where the conical is and for a more relaxed "peace of mind" while hunting, went to a .54 PRB rifle......Fred

 

[bubba.50]

in my opinion yer better off stickin' with either maxi-balls, Lee r.e.a.l. bullets or plain old patched roundballs.

and I don't know how all these other fellers load & shoot but, in over 40 years of usin' them almost exclusively, I have never had a maxi-ball "move off the powder".it probably was an occasional problem back in the days when undersize minies were used to help with ease of loadin' in fouled barrels in battlefield conditions but I believe it a much over-rated ocurance in the modern world.

 

[RjSixgun]

Most mythical problems with the minie ball are from the internet, other problems are novice mistakes.

The minie should not be a loose fit, it should be tight! 1or2thousanths under the bore size, any looser your accuracy will suffer. So this pretty much rules out any store bought minie ball!! You gotta buy a mold and size them to your barrel.
They also need to be make of pure lead, if the lead is to hard the bullet won't expand properly.if the bullet is to small it won't expand properly, if it's to small and to hard the bullet could blow it's skirt.

As for the rate of twist......this is also a myth that the minie proves wrong. I myself use 1in 72 Whitaker barrels, while Hawkeye uses Hoyt 1-66, good luck convincing either one of us that our twist rates don't shoot minie balls with extreme accuracy! We'd also fight you on 3groove VS multi groove, or straight or progressive depth rifleing.

 

[hawkeye2]

Go for em RJSixgun! I'll be right here to back you up if ya need it. :grin:

 

[BrownBear]

Heck....

Don't you to know that if it appears on the screen above the keyboard, it's GOSPEL!!!! :rotf:

Any fool can go out and shoot a gun, but few become masters of the internet. :wink:

 

[ohio ramrod]

My first deer rifle was a Numrich arms swivel breech with 1/56 twist and it shot Dixie's mini's very well. The Lee improved mini is very close to the older Dixie mini's. My next gun was a CVA 1/48 twist and it shot them quite well. So they should work well. In a TC. :idunno:

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm going to second RJsixgun on this, The T/C is designed to use a conical with a few driving rings that are larger than bore size. The T/C Maxiball or the Lee REAL will engrave on the lands at loading.

Minnie Balls are undersized. For a Minnie Ball to work it can be no smaller than 0.002" (two thousandths) of an inch under bore size with a thick hard lubrication to grab the rifling.

You must measure your bore and the diameter of the Minnie ball. If the difference is more that 0.002" then you run the very real risk of having the ball separate from the powder creating a very dangerous situation. Barrels can bulge or burst.

I can't recommend the use of a Minnie ball for your application from my keyboard.

 

[nkbj]

Can 45 and 50 caliber Minie balls as sold by companies such as Track of the Wolf be safely and practically used in Thompson Center 45 and 50 caliber rifles with 1:48 twists? How about hawken type rifles with 1:66 twists?

Sir, TC's typically have fairly shallow rifling that will allow a hollow base to seal off the bore.
The 48 inch twist is what the British found to be the very most accurate in their .577 bore military arms. Slower twists worked well also. In a .45 or .50 bore that 48" twist is proportionally even slower than in a .577. Most likely the 48" would work quite well with a minie of the proper diameter for the bore.
For hunting I've been told for forty years now by people that use minies that they have had great results. I tested some .445 minies with relatively light charges a little over a year ago and got about 3/4" expanded noses. Soft lead with some weight to it... hard to beat.
Some folks use a little piece of cloth across the back end of the minie to hold it in place, just a little narrow strip to create a little interference to the fit. Some folks use a stiff lube that makes the minie not move. Some whack the nose a good lick to jam it in place on the powder.
I think my remaining fifty barrel is a deep rifled round ball for a GPR. Can't help on any test results with a TC. But, I can say this, the .54 caliber GRP round ball barrel rifling will seal off with the Lyman heavy skirted minie. It's just a matter of grains FFg. So I know for sure that a TC barrel will.
That's something a barrel maker told me a while back and I was kinda skeptical over. He told me that a deep groove barrel could shoot a conical or hollow base just fine... you just had to find the load. And he knows his barrels.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I cast a Lee improved Mini that I've used in several .54 cal rifles. in a clean bore it is enough undersized to almost whistle in free fall dropping down the bore. 75 yard accuracy is not quite as good as a PRB, and drop off is about 5" at 50 yards vs a roundball.

Due to the loose fit, I only use the mini's at the range, and not very often. A PRB is more accurate out to 100 yards. While the gee-whiz factor is greater for spectators looking at a handful of minie's on your shooting bench, RB's are more practical.

 

[nkbj]

Might try a thin paper wrap. Paper is useful when the minie is small for the bore. Most countries did that with their service ammo any how. The US went the other route and used greased bullets. By the way, that's why so many rifles were found during the war of the northern aggression with sheared off lead rings in the bores... the lube grooves created a natural break point as with "tear along the dotted line". The paper patched bullets don't need the grooves.
That said, the paper patched have to be made, an acquired skill. Worth while to me just because I happen to enjoy it. Still though, I do the US style minies as well. The .69 rifled muskets are beasts but I love mine.
:haha:

 

[Scota4570]

I tried the Lee Minie that looks like a wad cutter in my TC Hawkin 50 cal. I tried and tried. I never got any semblance of accuracy.

 

[robinsroost]

I tried the Lee Minie that looks like a wad cutter in my TC Hawkin 50 cal.

I have that same mold but I have not tried them yet. They look like a hollow based wad cutter on steroids. I wonder if anyone has tried Lyman tumble lube on them, the red stuff. Inquiring minds want to know. Keep yer powder dry.......robin :hmm:

 

[satwel]

I bought a Lyman hollow-base miniball mold in .45 but I abandoned it quickly. The minis performed very inconsistently in my T/C Hawken. A few shot to point of aim, most were flyers and some even keyholed. Perhaps more powder would have improved expansion in the bore, but I gave up and went back to PRB.

 

[nkbj]

Was it number 445599?
Or maybe 454617?

 

[satwel]

Goodcheer,
The number on the mold is 445599. And there is an 11 below that.