Minimum Oversize On Ball

[nkbj]

What's the minimum amount of oversize you use on round ball for loading revolvers?

 

[smokepolehall]

I have the Uberti 1860 Army model .44. I tried .541 balls, they did not shave a good lead ring n did not seal great. So i bumped up to the .454 n they seal great. I figure i could go to the .457 n shave more lead ring.

 

[hawkeye2]

.000" is the minimum. As long as it contacts the chamber walls for it's entire circumference it will work but may creep from recoil. I've shot balls that did not shave a ring with no problems. With the revolvers I'm serious about I shoot .457" balls from chambers that have been reamed .456" (slightly less actually) and this works fine with a reworked forcing cone, factory bore and loads of 20 to 22 grains of 3f.

I feel .451" is too small for most Italian guns and .454" is about right but chamber diameters do vary. .457" will require considerable more effort to seat.

 

[64Springer]

Some lead ring/sealing pressure is needed.

It helps to build chamber pressure which turns into velocity.

It also keeps the ball from jumping forward during recoil.

Much like a roll crimp on a modern revolver cartridge.

 

[wiscoaster]

.454 tends to not shave a full circumference ring on my .44 cal Ubertis, and I haven't had any problems, but I also haven't been able to get any .457 balls to try out for comparison.

 

[bigted]

What's the minimum amount of oversize you use on round ball for loading revolvers?

Look at it this way, the larger diameter balls with provide a wider [belt] around the circumference of the equator of the ball which digs into the rifling and provides more positive spin on the ball. If I could, I would use a .460 ball in my 44’s and .385/.390 on my 36’s to have a max width band to engage the rifling to provide the max amount of contact with the rifling down the barrel thusly providing the much needed spin on the ball to in turn provide the max amount of grip and least amount of skip inside the barrel.

Colts had a progressive twist on their barrels to provide a much surperiour skip reduction to the ball/conical. Wish our new replica’s had such rifling so the skip would be lessened by nearly 100%.

take a .375 and a .380 ball’s and dry load ‘em into your cylinder if a 36 cal, or a .451 and a .454 into the chamber of your 44’s. Then remove the nipples and with a small enough punch [brass much prefered] punch out the balls and observe the flat circumference around the ball at the equator. This “width” difference will tell you how important the diameter is. Next measure the diameter of this flat which will give you the inner diameter of your cylinder chambers. This info will get you on your way to determine what diameter lead round balls to use on your revolver

 

[BackDraft]

Look at it this way, the larger diameter balls with provide a wider [belt] around the circumference of the equator of the ball which digs into the rifling and provides more positive spin on the ball. If I could, I would use a .460 ball in my 44’s and .385/.390 on my 36’s to have a max width band to engage the rifling to provide the max amount of contact with the rifling down the barrel thusly providing the much needed spin on the ball to in turn provide the max amount of grip and least amount of skip inside the barrel.

Colts had a progressive twist on their barrels to provide a much surperiour skip reduction to the ball/conical. Wish our new replica’s had such rifling so the skip would be lessened by nearly 100%.

take a .375 and a .380 ball’s and dry load ‘em into your cylinder if a 36 cal, or a .451 and a .454 into the chamber of your 44’s. Then remove the nipples and with a small enough punch [brass much prefered] punch out the balls and observe the flat circumference around the ball at the equator. This “width” difference will tell you how important the diameter is. Next measure the diameter of this flat which will give you the inner diameter of your cylinder chambers. This info will get you on your way to determine what diameter lead round balls to use on your revolver

Good info! Thanks.

 

[Crow Choker]

Back in the day when I first entered cap and ball shooting, 1972, .451 balls were the norm for loading/shooting a 44 calibered percussion revolver. I had a 1851 model EMF Colt in 44. Loading the .451's if I recall right the balls took a little push with the loading lever to seat and did shave a little lead. Accuracy was fair, never noticed any 'jump balls' in the cylinder. I switched over to .454 balls with the purchase of a 2nd Model Dragoon Uberti and other Colts and Remington's in the 90's and haven't used a .451 since. My lonely Lyman .451 mold sits idle.

I've tired .457 balls in my stable of Uberti Colts and a few Pietta's (also in Remington models) and saw no advantage in accuracy plus they are hard to load. Maybe the boys that use an off-loader rig may differ, but I like using the lever, plus don't care to take the cylinders off each time I load, PITA. Like to load em as Colt and Remington designed em. Alot of my shooting is walking along rivers and other areas where a loading table is out. The .454's shave off a nice ring of lead and recovered balls have a nice flat spot around the circumference of the ball with rifling showing.

Same goes for my two .36 cappers, a '51 Navy and '61 Navy both Uberti's. Bought both a 100 round box of .375's and .380's, had better accuracy and a nicer ring of shaved lead with the .380's, also a nice flat spot around the balls circumference. A double cavity .380 mold is what I bought for casting. The .457 balls I tried in my stable of 44's was tried after I bought a ROA and mold. Tried is the key word, the .457's are for my ROA only.

 

[M. De Land]

.000" is the minimum. As long as it contacts the chamber walls for it's entire circumference it will work but may creep from recoil. I've shot balls that did not shave a ring with no problems. With the revolvers I'm serious about I shoot .457" balls from chambers that have been reamed .456" (slightly less actually) and this works fine with a reworked forcing cone, factory bore and loads of 20 to 22 grains of 3f.

I feel .451" is too small for most Italian guns and .454" is about right but chamber diameters do vary. .457" will require considerable more effort to seat.

I have found very often the chamber mouths are a different diameter and/or out of round from each other in the same cylinder!
This is caused by factory reamer sharpening tolerance and warn spindle bearings in the gang ream fixture/ turret lathe. Plug gauge checking each chamber is the best way I have yet found to discover the odd ones.
I have tried honing chambers out to uniform them but in all cases have found that a simple chuck reamer job in the drill press after locating dead center with a plug gauge in a mill table vice is the most accurate way to uniform all the chambers. Reaming makes round even chamber diameters with parallel walls,honing with sand paper on a split mandrel not so much.
This method has kept all chambers square, parallel to each other and perpendicular to the cylinder axis.
The only down side I can think of is you are stuck with original factory chamber orientation as the plug gauge finds center on the original chamber location.
In the last photo four of the chambers have been completed by reaming the mouth to a uniform depth indicated by a simple steel plug dropped in each chamber before the reaming.

 

[Eutycus]

Dumb comment, but I imagine just what kind of lead that ball is made of would have some effect on the loading lever and frame. A .454 would make for a better ring of lead but seems like "wheel weight" ball would be a tad too much strain.

 

[Griff093]

Measuring several of my 1851 cylinders, they range from a small diameter of .369" to .372" at the max. That's across 9 cylinders of Uberti manufacture. One ASM, 1 Signature Series and 5 Colt 2nd Gens; plus two spare new Uberti cylinders. I use a .375" ball and have never had a chain fire.

 

[M. De Land]

Dumb comment, but I imagine just what kind of lead that ball is made of would have some effect on the loading lever and frame. A .454 would make for a better ring of lead but seems like "wheel weight" ball would be a tad too much strain.

Yeah, I agree that if your going to use the barrel rammer then stick with pure lead balls. This is one of the reasons I made a heavy duty cylinder loader while removed from the frame.

 

[Eutycus]

Yeah, I agree that if your going to use the barrel rammer then stick with pure lead balls. This is one of the reasons I made a heavy duty cylinder loader while removed from the frame.

Me too, if my cylinder ever splits it won't be from too much powder. It'll be the result of my "cramming" balls into it.

 

[nkbj]

Measuring several of my 1851 cylinders, they range from a small diameter of .369" to .372" at the max. That's across 9 cylinders of Uberti manufacture. One ASM, 1 Signature Series and 5 Colt 2nd Gens; plus two spare new Uberti cylinders. I use a .375" ball and have never had a chain fire.

So far I've found three types of .36's.
Pietta's at .369", Uberti/Navy Arms/etc at .373" and ham handed boogerment by people who don't know how to handle a reamer going up to .385".

 

[Bad Karma]

What's the minimum amount of oversize you use on round ball for loading revolvers?

Charlie Hahn reamed a few cylinders for me years ago. He cuts them all to .456” as does Pietta in the Shooters Model. I use a minimum of .456” in commercial balls and the only two chain fires I have experienced in 60 years occurred with one Pietta using that size ball. Pietta recommended .465” at one time so that’s what I use in those guns. .457 seem to be fine in the Hahn Colts.

I have only 3 .36’s, two Remington Uberti’s and one Colt 1861 also Uberti. I use .380’s in them. .375 will walk under recoil.