curious what you guys think is the Minimum ball size for deer? I want to get a 36-40 cal light recoil rifle (longbarrel slow twist flintlock) but not sure if I should because I just have to hunt with all my guns. I can go to a 45. but wondering what the experience is here with you guys.. thanks again (second topic) Ted from Mass.
Minimum size for deer?
- Thread starter Tajue17
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While I know deer have been taken with every imaginable weapon / caliber at one time or another, I personally worry that anything in the .36-.40cal range introduces a lot of challenge and restrictions to deer hunting.
And that's OK if you're disciplined enough to keep a small caliber rifle laying in your lap while a boone & crockett buck walks along too far away for the small caliber.
Plus, whatever you decide, you probably know that many states have a minimum caliber anyway, so be sure to double check that for the state you'll be hunting in.
And that's OK if you're disciplined enough to keep a small caliber rifle laying in your lap while a boone & crockett buck walks along too far away for the small caliber.
Plus, whatever you decide, you probably know that many states have a minimum caliber anyway, so be sure to double check that for the state you'll be hunting in.
You will need to start by checking your local game regs for min cal requirements, I have taken several deer with .40 and .45 rb and find it works well but would suggest a 50yd range or less, the .40 will also work well at 90yds through the head, but this type of shot must be thought out very carefully by the individual with their own skill level and experience weighed carefully. I don't think I would go down to a .32 or .36 but some do and claim good results. self control is very important when useing the small cals as the temptation to take the longer shots will always be there. most small cals below .45 use a 1/48 twist as ball size as well as barrel length play a part in what is the "right" twist.
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I have no idea what game regs are in Massachussets but here in Missouri 40 cal is the minimum for deer and I think that's a little shaky unless, as the previous poster said, you are very particular about shot placement. The 40 has always been neither fish nor fowl.....a bit too big for small game and not quite big enough for larger game. Personally, 45 cal would be the minimum for deer and even then you better be picky about your shots. I don't believe you would find the recoil of either a 45 or 50 excessive.
If you're coming from a smokeless background, as it appears you are, 45 cal. isn't that big when talking muzzleloaders. I shoot 54's exclusively for matches and hunting large game. I've killed some deer with a 50 using round ball and cannot fault the performance, I just prefer the 54's. My squirrel rifle is a 36 and that is a good small game caliber. It is a bit destructive on body shots but I try for head shots all the time......I just don't always get them.....hehehe....my fault!!! It's also easier to take care of. I've had 32's in the past and I did like them.....but to me they were just more trouble than they were worth.
Do you by chance know anyone who shoots muzzleloaders? If so, ask them if you can try their rifle if it's of the type you're interested in. If not, try it anyway.....black powder has a considerably different recoil than smokeless. Most of us have more than one rifle and are always willing to introduce someone to the sport. Up in Mass. there has to be several clubs, get in contact with one of them, attend an event and don't leave until you've had the chance to shoot a few different rifles. It will be both a rewarding and informative experience. Good luck and go for it!!!
Vic
If you're coming from a smokeless background, as it appears you are, 45 cal. isn't that big when talking muzzleloaders. I shoot 54's exclusively for matches and hunting large game. I've killed some deer with a 50 using round ball and cannot fault the performance, I just prefer the 54's. My squirrel rifle is a 36 and that is a good small game caliber. It is a bit destructive on body shots but I try for head shots all the time......I just don't always get them.....hehehe....my fault!!! It's also easier to take care of. I've had 32's in the past and I did like them.....but to me they were just more trouble than they were worth.
Do you by chance know anyone who shoots muzzleloaders? If so, ask them if you can try their rifle if it's of the type you're interested in. If not, try it anyway.....black powder has a considerably different recoil than smokeless. Most of us have more than one rifle and are always willing to introduce someone to the sport. Up in Mass. there has to be several clubs, get in contact with one of them, attend an event and don't leave until you've had the chance to shoot a few different rifles. It will be both a rewarding and informative experience. Good luck and go for it!!!
Vic
so as far as opinions 45cal is a "decent" minimum?
Im not a Marksman Im just curious how low I can go. it has to be 45. because in Massachusetts its 44-72cal in muzzleloaders, I guess that answers my question. thanks for the posts, Ted
Im not a Marksman Im just curious how low I can go. it has to be 45. because in Massachusetts its 44-72cal in muzzleloaders, I guess that answers my question. thanks for the posts, Ted
Im currently using a renegade smoothbore 56 in fowl weather, or I'll have a 50. TC Hawken flintlock or a 62cal flint fowler. I was just curious what the lightest guns could do. I havien't shot a deer with BP yet because Im 90% traditional archery and fill my freezer that way. I shoot the smokepoles quite a bit but don't hunt with them much. I recently shot two pheasants in one day with my 20ga pedorsoli BP shotgun and that put the fire into me to put some more smoke out there. I just registered here tonite and thank everyone for the posts, Ted
Most states will post their minimum caliber in their hunting ragulations, Ohio's is .38 caliber or larger...
So, a 4.5 inch Civil War cannon will be OK to use, "it's a muzzleloader"...
"Remember, fast burning fuse looks the same as slow burning fuse?"
So, a 4.5 inch Civil War cannon will be OK to use, "it's a muzzleloader"...
"Remember, fast burning fuse looks the same as slow burning fuse?"
NY says "0.44 caliber or larger." But then we have big deer. Last month I was in Maryland for Thanksgiving and saw guys packing them out in their game bags. ;-)
Rocky Johnson
45 Cal.
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Michigan droped the 44 cal. requirement. What were they thinking? Muzzleloaders with BP or a BP substitute.Rocky
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muh dad's taken' at LEAST 3 deer with his .40 flinter (North Carolina pattern).
TwoShadows
40 Cal.
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Howdy TaJue17,
I agree with TG too. Kentucky minimum caliber started out as .38 or larger....havn't looked lately as I mostly shoot somewhat larger. 30 years ago here most Fish and Game commission folks checked your m/l bore size by sticking a cartridge from their service weapon into the muzzle! They finally realized that a .38 special bullet was actually .357....a lot of deer were taken back then with the then popular .36 caliber rifles. Doesn't work that way nowadays I'm guessing.
I have taken whitetail with .40 caliber, at close range(bow range). I was not satisfied with that...but I have made meat with most every "rag-nosed" gun I own. I normally nowadays hunt with .54 or .60 or .62 smooth. I too am a firm believer in round ball. I normally shoot the same amount of powder at shooting matches as when hunting. 70-80 grains...either 2f or 3f depending on what the particular weapon is tuned in with. Longest shot is 110 yards with a flinter....perfect conditions though. Most of my shots are under 50 yards.....most are closer to 25-30. I like to get up close and personal. Same goes for wild hogs.
I agree with TG too. Kentucky minimum caliber started out as .38 or larger....havn't looked lately as I mostly shoot somewhat larger. 30 years ago here most Fish and Game commission folks checked your m/l bore size by sticking a cartridge from their service weapon into the muzzle! They finally realized that a .38 special bullet was actually .357....a lot of deer were taken back then with the then popular .36 caliber rifles. Doesn't work that way nowadays I'm guessing.
I have taken whitetail with .40 caliber, at close range(bow range). I was not satisfied with that...but I have made meat with most every "rag-nosed" gun I own. I normally nowadays hunt with .54 or .60 or .62 smooth. I too am a firm believer in round ball. I normally shoot the same amount of powder at shooting matches as when hunting. 70-80 grains...either 2f or 3f depending on what the particular weapon is tuned in with. Longest shot is 110 yards with a flinter....perfect conditions though. Most of my shots are under 50 yards.....most are closer to 25-30. I like to get up close and personal. Same goes for wild hogs.
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You don't have much choice on minimum in most states, they specify the minimum. Technically, anything that will get to their innards will kill them, and I have talked to fellows that had killed deer with .32 rifles. I'm a big bore fan myself. My .45s are target guns and everything I hunt with is .50 or bigger, much bigger. .54 is good, but .58 is better!
I have used a .50 for years, works great on game and with reduced loads is very plesant to shoot. I have one rifle that loves about 45-50 grains of powder and I can shoot it all day with very little recoil or muzzle blast or if need be crank her up to about 75 grains and have at deer. Just my opinion.
Watch 'yer topknot
Hawkeye
Watch 'yer topknot
Hawkeye
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In the land of roundball shooters the .45 is a small bore.
I'm not saying it's too small for deer, but if I had my druthers, I'd ruther use a big bore, .50 and larger.
I have a custom .58 Jeager in the works right now and should have it in a couple of weeks.
The only reason I don't have a larger bore is because I can buy swagged .58 roundballs and I already cast for way to many other caliber and casting takes time away from shooting.
Still a rifled 72 would be awesome!!!! ::
I'm not saying it's too small for deer, but if I had my druthers, I'd ruther use a big bore, .50 and larger.
I have a custom .58 Jeager in the works right now and should have it in a couple of weeks.
The only reason I don't have a larger bore is because I can buy swagged .58 roundballs and I already cast for way to many other caliber and casting takes time away from shooting.
Still a rifled 72 would be awesome!!!! ::
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O.K. musketman. You have my riveted attention now.
A .75 smoothie is BIG, I like BIG.
Now that you have my interest how about some details. It's details, man, details I need.
What powder charge, patch lube (lizzard lard?), what kind of accuracy at what distance and so on.
Pleeeeeease???????
\Ya gotta respect a guy that shoots a .75.
When I was a copper I carred a .45 auto only because then they didn't make a .50.
Regards,
maxiball /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
A .75 smoothie is BIG, I like BIG.
Now that you have my interest how about some details. It's details, man, details I need.
What powder charge, patch lube (lizzard lard?), what kind of accuracy at what distance and so on.
Pleeeeeease???????
\Ya gotta respect a guy that shoots a .75.
When I was a copper I carred a .45 auto only because then they didn't make a .50.
Regards,
maxiball /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
No problem, thanks for asking... ::
I use a Brown Bess musket (Flintlock)
It has a 42 inch smoothbore barrel and weighs roughly 10 pounds...
I shoot two different diameter round balls, depending on if I'm hunting or target shooting...
For hunting, I use a .715 round ball (530 grains) with a .020 pillow tick patch (blue striped) lubed with Wonder Lube...
For targets I use a .735 round ball (545 grains) with a .015 pillow tick patch (blue striped) lubed with #13 or Moose Milk...
(I use the looser fitting ball combo for hunting with pre-cut and lubed patches, it's easier to load in the field.)
Both sizes of round balls sit on a charge of 80 to 150 (depending on my mood) grains of FFg in the tube and FFFg for the prime...
80 grains yeilds 879 fps and 934 ft/lbs muzzle energy...
100 grains yeilds 1006 fps and 1223 ft/lbs muzzle energy...
150 grains yeilds 1213 fps and 1778 ft/lbs muzzle energy...
The .735 round ball chugging along at 1000 fps, sighted in for 50 yards will be -3.5 inches off zero at 75 yards, still well within the kill zone of any standard deer...
Another fine aspect of the bess is that it can be loaded as a shot gun also, this means I can load it light for squirrels...
3 drams FFg (82 grains)
1 (.125) heavy over powder card
1 (1/2 inch) feltan wad lubed with #13
1-1/8 ounce of #6 shot
1 thin over shot card
Or I can load it heavier for geese...
3-3/4 drams FFg (102 grains)
1 (.125) heavy over powder card
1 (1/2 inch) feltan wad lubed with #13
1-1/2 ounce of #4 shot
1 thin over shot card
All loads are from the Lyman Black Powder Handbook...
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Yummy. I WANT one.
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Here's and old rule of thu :: ::mb. "I'd rather be over gunned as undergunned!
