Minnie in a smoothie

[Texas Gil]

Anyone ever tried a 58 cal Minnie in a smoothie? I’m curious if the skirt will expand enough for descent group at 50 yds. Like 6 “ @ 50.
I’m thinking put a card on top of the Minnie to hold it in place on top of 80 gr 3f.
What’s your guess?

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

Smoothebore .69 muskets fired minnies. I tried a .577 minnie in a .62 fowler and never did find that slug.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[Grenadier1758]

Minie' balls really perform much better with some spin to stabilize the conical bullet. Decent groups? Probably not.

 

[Grenadier1758]

My pop’s 69 is what I used for deer hunting back in the day. I liked 90 grains and round ball. Mini-balls with my dad’s 69 (smoothbore) weren’t very accurate. When shooting off hand, my left hand nearer to me than the forearm was more accurate for whatever reason.

Minie' Balls in a 0.69 caliber smoothbore?

Not well. The Minie' ball needs to spin to stabilize. Can't happen i a smoothbore. The Minie' ball also needs a precise fit to the bore. Most will be quite undersized to the bore of an 1842 Springfield.

You're pretty much trying to make a Nessler Ball.

In the 1850s there were numerous attempts to make a self stabilizing bullet to make smoothbore muskets, then obsolete, more effective until those units received rifled weapons .

To this day it seems hard to get them to shoot well, the over riding theory being these were more psychological in effect to make the troops feel like they had "bullets" similar to a Minie vs "outdated" round balls.

Test show the Nessler only improved over the round ball at 200+ yards and was actually less accurate at short ranges. They had a short service life, the CSA used the type shown in the bottom pic as well as the top pic , but to my knowledge after 1865 no military used them for anything. I bought 60 of the Nesslers in the bottom pic to try in my Pedersoli 1816 Springfield but haven't shot any yet. They mic at .680, I'm guessing I'm going to have ok results just hot dip lubing them and running them through a .680 sizer, and shooting them like Minies.

The idea being that the base will "collapse and expand" into the bore on firing and the bullet will use gyroscopic properties to stay pointed forward.

 

[Trot]

The .69 smoothbores fired round ball or buck and ball, some were later rifled for use with minies. Give it a try and let us know how it works .

 

[Texas Gil]

Will do

 

[Notchy Bob]

I expect it would keyhole, and I doubt accuracy or penetration on game would be adequate. A round ball would likely perform better.

I don't know of any rifled slugs available in .58 caliber, which is essentially 24 gauge. Those might perform better than a Minie, but I don't know.

A Minie bullet is considerably heavier than a round ball of equal caliber, meaning more inertia to overcome in getting the Minie started. I expect this would increase pressure in the breech of your gun. However, if you are sure the barrel is up to the task, you might as well try a few shots, and by all means, let us know the results. We all might learn something new.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Texas Gil]

Thanks, I dont expect success here. Just a what if deal. I've experienced keyhole out of a rifle using 60 gr charge. Moved up to 70 to fix it. I suspect I might need to up the charge to 80 grs to expand the 58 to 60.1. Anyway its worth a few shots and will be fun.

 

[TreeMan]

I’ve done the reverse and shot some 445 roundballs in 58 cal Sabots with surprisingly good results.

 

[User_Dan]

I have played with the PH style Minie and some other heavy skirt models and if the powder charge isnt sufficient to blow out the skirt they tumble out of my 1861.

A 500+ gr minie sideways at 50 yards does make a Heck of a hole in the target though. I would expect tumbling for sure but why not give it a shot, could be a fun learning project

 

[SamTex1949]

the squirt will expand but it has no rifling to engage so it would act more like a shuttlecock in badminton

 

[Texas Gil]

I’ve done the reverse and shot some 445 roundballs in 58 cal Sabots with surprisingly good results.

sabot/round ball is interesting. was the bore 20 ga?

 

[Pukka Sahib]

Anyone ever tried a 58 cal Minnie in a smoothie? I’m curious if the skirt will expand enough for descent group at 50 yds. Like 6 “ @ 50.
I’m thinking put a card on top of the Minnie to hold it in place on top of 80 gr 3f.
What’s your guess?

I imagine it would dramatically de-stabilize with unpredictable results. Would probably make a wonderful defensive load within 25 feet, after that - lucky if you could hit the proverbial barn door.

 

[new2bp]

A traditional Foster style slug for a unmentionable 12/20 gauge shotgun is stabilized in flight like a badmitton birdie - the weight forward balance provided by the hollow base

Depending on the diameter to length ratio and the depth of the skirt on the mini it could verywell have some stability

So I say try it, only way to really know

 

[SlidePicker]

For .58 calibers Lyman made or makes a "New Style Minié" with a large, thin walled, near cylindrical base cavity instead of the usual coned cavity. It's big, close to 600 grains IIRC, and round nosed. The weight is concentrated forward with a relatively long, light base. That would come closer to shuttlecock stability than any other I've seen. In .68 caliber, Lyman's old style Minié of 730 grains or so with a conical base cavity is the only one I've seen. You can find several reports online of people trying them in smoothbores and getting keyholing. As far as I can determine from Internet searching, rifled .69 caliber muskets used by the Union were loaded with 80 grains of powder under that monstrous Minié. Smoothbores were loaded with ball, buckshot, or buck and ball. You may find different information.

 

[Timber Wolf]

I bought a mold here on the forum that threw a Minie that is a snug fit in my .56 SB Renegade. They shot terrible, really terrible. Keyhole city. And I really enjoy shooting this smoothbore with PRB.

 

[hawkeye2]

Before investing in a mold I would suggest you buy some minies to try. I have a feeling you will be disappointed.

 

[Texas Gil]

Not buying a mould . I have some minnies

 

[hanshi]

Slugs in modern shotguns are made so they act like a dart; that is with a light rear section and a heavy nose. If you use a slug and buy or cast them they should fit this description as much as possible. Otherwise you're probably going to experience key holes & wild shots.

 

[TreeMan]

sabot/round ball is interesting. was the bore 20 ga?

No I had some plastic 58 cal sabots. I shot them loaded with a 45 roundball out of a Parker hale musketoon.