Mississippi rifle cartridges w/ball

[brazosland]

I have an 1841 with original barrel and lock in 54. Stock and hardware are new production.

But the bore is immaculate and she shoots .530 ball really well.

Trying to be a bit more HC. I use paper cartridges for my ACW muskets, but how do you do a cartridge for a round ball? Or did they even do that at all?

I have been trying to figure out how to get a tight patch/ball arranged in a cartridge and can’t sort it out. Help is appreciated.

 

[Arkansawer]

Try using the paper from the cartridge as your patch.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Let's see. You have a 0.530 ball. What is the diameter of the bore? You want to make a cylinder of paper that is bore diameter and will let you insert the ball. Twist the tip over the ball and tie the ball in the paper cylinder. Add the powder charge and fold the paper to hold the powder. There are several threads with photos to see what such a cartridge looks like. To load, tear off the folded over paper, pour the powder down the barrel, turn the cartridge over and shove the excess paper and ball into the breech. The excess paper acts as a wad while the paper wrap acts as a patch.

 

[Stantheman86]

They did use a cartridge for the 1841 rifle during the Mexican war.

It was a ball (I dont know the size) with a patch sewn around it, in a standard type paper cartridge.

If I recall there were two sizes and the smaller ones would be used as the bore fouled.

FYI I also have a Euroarms .54 Mississippi, obviously not original but shoots beautifully with .535 Minie balls.

Like Grenadier says , I have also done that with various rifles. Make a paper cartridge , and lube up the ball end with lanolin and use the cartridge paper as a patch.

 

[brazosland]

What type of paper? It would have to be thick and durable.

 

[hanshi]

I have one of those Euroarms US M1841, too. They are indeed accurate and fit and finish are second to none. Accuracy with conicals was "fair" in my rifle with prb accuracy being exceptional. It would certainly be an interesting project working on cartridges for that rifle.

 

[tenngun]

I have read of military shooters sewing a patch around a ball, I don’t know if this was done with the Mississippi rifle or not

 

[lyman54]

What type of paper? It would have to be thick and durable.

I used to make paper cartridges for .58 Minie balls with wax paper. Worked good for me. Too much work so now I just load powder and ball.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Any paper that can hold together is good. I have used standard 20 pound printer paper. I have used newsprint. I have also used onion paper or tracing paper.

 

[Stantheman86]

The Mississippi was used by specialized Riflemen in the Mexican War so I believe there was a "Riflemans Kit" with a cartridge box, belt, etc that goes with it. S&S sells a repro of it.

I have read that powder was poured directly from a flask with a measure nozzle, then a patched round ball loaded much like we do today.....and also a ball with a patch sewn around it.

Later in their use in the Civil War for those left in .54 and not rebored, a
.54 Minie cartridge was issued but accuracy during Ordnance Dept testing wasn't as good as the .58 version.

There were , it seems so many 1841's made that it was worth reboring many of them to .58 and long range sights added to some of them.

 

[DaveC]

https://www.thejeffersonarsenal.com/product-page/54cal-round-ball-paper-cartridge-kit

The original .54 Mississippi Model 1841 percussion rifle used a patched round ball. Like European jäger rifles, the patchin' was sewn around the ball. At the above link, you can get a kit to make your own Mississippi rifle patched round ball cartridges. Or, you can get the kit without projectiles and use your own. The original .54 caliber version had seven deep rifling grooves, but during the War of the Rebellion the CSA mostly issued a .54 Minié/Burton ball for all .54 caliber arms. The Minié is best with shallow grooves, or variable depth grooves, that are typically shallower and wider. You might give both a try.

A heavy rammer was used to seat the patched ball. As you probably know, the British Baker used a sewn on patch too, but un-patched or even under-sized and unpatched balls were issued British riflemen so they could load and shoot quicker if faced by a rapid French counterattack or cavalry patrol. The Baker had a rate of twist of 1 turn in every 120 inches, which is practically straight! It appears the British attitude to the rifling twist favored controlling fouling over other criteria.

The U.S. patched round ball was also used in .54 rifles like the 1817 Common Rifle, which a good many New Orleans Greys were armed with during the Texas Revolution, albeit a flintlock not a caplock.

 

[tom berwinkle]

I have a 1841 Mississippi rifleman cartridge box or bag with correct peace flask suspended from the white buff shoulder strap, this is made to correct spacimin in West Point museum.

 

[Rat]

Grocery bag paper bag paper (say that ten times fast) Works well. I have a pistol that shoots about as accurately (and it is very accurate) with the ball in a paper cartridge, used and loaded as above, as it does with a cloth patched round ball. Paper bag paper has worked well for me in other applications as well. As long as the ball fits snug in the paper tube, you don't need to do the tie and twist thing, just fold the end and put on a spot of glue.

 

[dave951]

Later in their use in the Civil War for those left in .54 and not rebored, a
.54 Minie cartridge was issued but accuracy during Ordnance Dept testing wasn't as good as the .58 version.

There were , it seems so many 1841's made that it was worth reboring many of them to .58 and long range sights added to some of them.

Maybe back then, but follow the target techniques for a minie and you'll find they can be extremely accurate in 54.

 

[smoothshooter]

Let's see. You have a 0.530 ball. What is the diameter of the bore? You want to make a cylinder of paper that is bore diameter and will let you insert the ball. Twist the tip over the ball and tie the ball in the paper cylinder. Add the powder charge and fold the paper to hold the powder. There are several threads with photos to see what such a cartridge looks like. To load, tear off the folded over paper, pour the powder down the barrel, turn the cartridge over and shove the excess paper and ball into the breech. The excess paper acts as a wad while the paper wrap acts as a patch.


Won't the paper patch tear during loading or firing unless the bore is really clean?
It also looks like once the cartridges were made up they would have to be fired in a few weeks or days before the paper starts getting too soft, aggravating the problem mentioned above.

 

[DaveC]

Paper cartridges had to be neatly made or they'd rattle apart inside the cartridge box on the march. That's why the U.S. choked off the end and tied it with linen thread. The French used to paste them. The end is folded over in "three" with a dab of paste or glue between each fold, i.e. fold, glue, fold, glue, fold. Then they sort of "crimped" the end after it dried using the forming rod and the thumb. Choking the cartridge behind the ball seems to have been a mostly U.S. practice.

In any case, you'll need cloth patching for a round ball rifle rather than a smooth bore.

 

[Stantheman86]

My Euroarms. 54 Mississippi shoots tight with .533 Minies, I roll paper cartridges for it.

I stopped messing with round balls in that rifle

 

[BillinOregon]

DaveC, that kit from Jefferson Arsenal seems very reasonable. Guessing you would load that ball with the gathered muslin end down.

 

[Stantheman86]

You can buy lightweight muslin for 3 bucks a yard on FleaBay, I just bought some to try to make these cartridges with. 570 balls.

I was thinking of getting the kit just for the instructions, pre cut muslin pieces and the .54 dowel. I also have a .54 Mississippi so I can use it for that. $23 or so for the kit without round balls is a great price just to get started.

Before I started cutting my own paper and all that I used a Jefferson Arsenal .58 Minie kit to get the feel for making them.

 

[BS]

http://rjrenner.blogspot.com/p/tapered-paper-cartridges.html

I wrote this several years ago, it is how I make them.