I thought I would start a different thread on this.I'm getting better patterns with 777 than real black powder.Someone mentioned using about ten grains of Goex in front of 777 to prevent hangfire.Would it hurt to mix a whole pound of 777 with real black powder.Has anyone done it?Would it be dangerous in any way?I could get the best of both worlds maybe.Better patterns with no hangfire.So what do y'all think?
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Mixing black powder with Triple 7
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MercerLake
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:v A starter charge of Bp in front of 777 in a flint gun is considered safe by most. But, never mix powders as the burn rate can be totally changed with possible disastrous results, Not a good idea in any gun. :td:
Those really weren't the answers I was looking for but I will take the advice of those more experienced than me and not do it.I just thought it might work.I guess I will just use goex as a primer when using 777.I can't hunt with confidence if I know I might get a hangfire.
I would think that one of the 2 powders has more weight than the other. So lets say you mix the 2 up and lets say 777 is heavier. It will settle to the bottom of the container and goex will be on the top. So now your using strait goex cause all your 777 is on the bottom. I have an idea that would be perfect for what your are trying to do but I cant think of what the little tubes are called. I use them to put powder charges for my C&B revolvers. little plastic tubes with a threaded cap. They hold about 20 or 25 grains of powder. You could get some of those and put your goex kicker charge in those. Or maybe a 38 special case with a cork in it. This way you dont have to keep adjusting your powder measure, you just dump your goex load from the tube or pistol casing and then proceed to put your main charge in from your powder measure
tom deinek
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Contrary to everyone else, I see no problem with mixing the two.
I'd think you'd have to run all sorts of tests with it to determine what you had produced.
I assume that unless you are chemist or some other type of professional diagnostician, you'd run a good chance of blowing your butt off in that testing process.
I'd think you'd have to run all sorts of tests with it to determine what you had produced.
I assume that unless you are chemist or some other type of professional diagnostician, you'd run a good chance of blowing your butt off in that testing process.
jamesthomas
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I think you would still have a hang fire. The point of putting a 10 grn. starter charge in first is to get the faster ignition from the Goex. If you mix the 2 you won't know if you got any Goex near the primer, you could just have nothing but 777 near the breech and still give you that hang fire. Keep the 2 separate.
simeon england
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Howdy!
You might look at other ways to reduce hang fire if you are having trouble. Tune the lock or have it tuned, make sure the touch hole is in the proper location, make sure it is clear, make sure there is no drag on the cock-frizen-springs-tumbler, etc. Proper size flint, perhaps a frizen that does not throw good sparks. Those kinds of things I would look at to reduce hang fire. A good working fast lock will reduce most all issues.
What kind of lock are you shooting?
Hope this helps
S
You might look at other ways to reduce hang fire if you are having trouble. Tune the lock or have it tuned, make sure the touch hole is in the proper location, make sure it is clear, make sure there is no drag on the cock-frizen-springs-tumbler, etc. Proper size flint, perhaps a frizen that does not throw good sparks. Those kinds of things I would look at to reduce hang fire. A good working fast lock will reduce most all issues.
What kind of lock are you shooting?
Hope this helps
S
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If you are doing this to avoid hang fire, you want the black powder next to the flash channel.
PETA manual says put the 777 in the flash pan when hunting all living creatures :rotf:
I'm shooting a percussion Pedersoli 12ga sxs.I just thought that mixing would eliminate the slight hangfire.It isn't much but I don't want any.I didn't think about the different burn times of two different powders.
Do any of you think it could be dangerous if I tried it with a few shots.Just mix up several ounces to see the results.I know 777 requires about 20% less powder in a load compared to Pyrodex or BP.
Do any of you think it could be dangerous if I tried it with a few shots.Just mix up several ounces to see the results.I know 777 requires about 20% less powder in a load compared to Pyrodex or BP.
Lonegun1894
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I personally don't think you would have any safety issues with a cap-gun if you used loads you had worked up for the 777, just in case. My concern though would be that if your powder settled out, separated, etc, you would get inconsistency in your shots, possibly causing misses, which would frustrate me more than a slight hang-fire. I don't think the safety would be an issue due to the relatively low pressures we all get regardless of if using real BP, or any of the substitutes, but still wouldn't do it due to the inconsistency concerns. I think the suggestion you got of a started charge of BP and then the rest of the load of 777 is the best you've gotten yet, and would do it just to use up the 777, just to keep it from going to waste, and then go to straight BP when you use up the 777. Best of luck.
Are you actually getting hangfires with the 777?
Yes,I'm getting slight hangfires.Not every shot but probably half.I'm using Spitfire musket nipples and caps.Also,about on e a session, the gun won't fire at all on the first shot.I went to 777 because Pyrodex misfired a lot.I would be duck hunting and have a group come into the decoys and the gun failed to fire.With 777,I'm getting good patterns but slight hangfires.I think the BP primer is a good idea and I will try that.
Patocazador
54 Cal.
Your duplex load will probably work. It's called "du-plex" for "2" loads, not one mixed with the other.
I would try using straight 777 with CCI MAGNUM caps first. If that doesn't solve your problem, buy an extra set of nipples and bore out the hole a bit by hand with a drill bit, enlarging it little by little until you get the results you want. WARNING: If you enlarge the holes too much, you'll get blow-back through the nipples.
Hotter caps usually solve the problem ... or you could invest in 2 Mag-sparks and use 209 primers = problem solved. :grin:
I would try using straight 777 with CCI MAGNUM caps first. If that doesn't solve your problem, buy an extra set of nipples and bore out the hole a bit by hand with a drill bit, enlarging it little by little until you get the results you want. WARNING: If you enlarge the holes too much, you'll get blow-back through the nipples.
Hotter caps usually solve the problem ... or you could invest in 2 Mag-sparks and use 209 primers = problem solved. :grin:
rafterob
62 Cal.
Magnum caps usually eliminate the "slight hangfire" when using substitute powders. That would be the easiest thing to try first. Goex specifically states to not mix their powder with any other powders.
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AGREED 100%.
"Mixing powders" (absent REAL knowledge of what you're about) is a BAD PLAN.
Otoh, I see NO good reason NOT to use a "BP starting charge" under Pyrodex in a flinter.
yours, satx
"Mixing powders" (absent REAL knowledge of what you're about) is a BAD PLAN.
Otoh, I see NO good reason NOT to use a "BP starting charge" under Pyrodex in a flinter.
yours, satx
I use my muzzle loaders for hunting, so having them go off dependably on the first shot is critical. The failure to fire is bad enough in the duck blind, imagine how it feels when you have spent the whole morning climbing the mountain to get within a hundred yards of the big Mule Deer bedded in the rim rock!
It starts with the last cleaning of the gun. Make sure the nipples are clear and no oil or lube is in the fire channel downstream from the nipples. Regardless of how you clean them, for a last step blow through the nipple as hard as you can to clear the channel. Confirm the channel is clear by holding it up to the light and seeing daylight through it. I put a small bit of Natural Lube 1000 on the threads only and reinstall.
For my shotgun there is an additional step. My ram rod is a 5/8 inch wood dowel about 10 inches longer than my barrels. This is much handier in the duck blind than the spindly thing that came with the gun. I put my first load in the gun at home the night before the hunt (of course it does not get capped up until I am fully settled in the blind and ready to shoot the next morning). The important step is ramming home the overpowder card after the powder is in. Put the hammers on half cock to get them off the nipples. After getting the overpowder card past the choke and squared to the bore I shove it home hard and fast. I want to hear a loud whoosh from the air being forced through the nipple. This confirms the fire channel and nipples remain clear and ready to accept the caps spark.
For the hangfire issue, I can say I have had no such problem using Pyrodex RS. I use #11 CCI Magnum caps or the 1075 RWS caps. You mentioned you are using the Musket caps. I have not used Musket caps, but I just got a replica 1861 Springfield so I am going to start. Doing a little research I saw where some folks claim the new CCI musket caps (four tab, #301) don't work so hot. Something to do with toning them down following a products liability issue or something. They were complaining about hangfires and failure to fires with them. These folks recommended a switch to the RWS musket cap.
It starts with the last cleaning of the gun. Make sure the nipples are clear and no oil or lube is in the fire channel downstream from the nipples. Regardless of how you clean them, for a last step blow through the nipple as hard as you can to clear the channel. Confirm the channel is clear by holding it up to the light and seeing daylight through it. I put a small bit of Natural Lube 1000 on the threads only and reinstall.
For my shotgun there is an additional step. My ram rod is a 5/8 inch wood dowel about 10 inches longer than my barrels. This is much handier in the duck blind than the spindly thing that came with the gun. I put my first load in the gun at home the night before the hunt (of course it does not get capped up until I am fully settled in the blind and ready to shoot the next morning). The important step is ramming home the overpowder card after the powder is in. Put the hammers on half cock to get them off the nipples. After getting the overpowder card past the choke and squared to the bore I shove it home hard and fast. I want to hear a loud whoosh from the air being forced through the nipple. This confirms the fire channel and nipples remain clear and ready to accept the caps spark.
For the hangfire issue, I can say I have had no such problem using Pyrodex RS. I use #11 CCI Magnum caps or the 1075 RWS caps. You mentioned you are using the Musket caps. I have not used Musket caps, but I just got a replica 1861 Springfield so I am going to start. Doing a little research I saw where some folks claim the new CCI musket caps (four tab, #301) don't work so hot. Something to do with toning them down following a products liability issue or something. They were complaining about hangfires and failure to fires with them. These folks recommended a switch to the RWS musket cap.
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