Yep they are Big and TOUGH, around here they gotta learn how to whup a coyote before they can learn how to walk :crackup: But seriously, I have seen birds 'knocked down' with 6 or 8 shot in the head & neck get up, shake, and RUN for the brush... thats why I like the Bigger shot, it penetrates better & kills 'em deader... Last jake I shot was w/ the 'swan-shot', about 30 yds, held just on top of his head & let er rip, top 1/3 of his head was GONE, 2 pellets hit in his neck, and 1 'flyer' pellet went thru the upper wing bone, ribs, and out thru his spine... That bird was D E A D.... yea 'big shot' works..:thumbsup: