ML Kit Build Difficulty?

[N.Y. Yankee]

I live in, basically, an apartment. I live alone so I can do whatever I want, within reason. Only thing I can't do is build something like a heavy, solid work bench, so I don't have one of those, or a vise, obviously. My question is, how difficult is it really to build a kit gun from those that are available now? I've always wanted to build a smooth-bore flintlock. I am skilled at wood working and finishing, some metal working. I have quite a fair supply of hand tools, power tools, measuring tools, a Dremel, a solid kitchen table and a Workmate table. I also have a nice gun cradle with a clamping device to hold a long-gun. All of this is in my storage unit so it's readily available. I have plenty of time in the evenings after my work day so I could just take my time and pick away at it. I'm wondering if ordering a kit would be foolish for me or should I wait until I have access to a proper work shop, which may be a fairly long time for me. What are your thoughts about it?

 

[Eric Krewson]

If you order a Kibler fowler kit you won't need much more than a small chisel and some sandpaper for the wood, I don't know how finished the metal mounts are and if they still have casting marks but a small file and some sandpaper is all you need to slick them up. Most of the parts on a Kibler are CNC shaped to be mostly finished.

For the more involved project like a Chambers kit, it sounds like you have everything you need, a shop would be nice but a lot of these guns were built on a kitchen table by folk who improvised and came up with what they needed.

I wrote this up for the same question a few years ago and saved it;

A little more on M/L building, there are a bunch of options available;

First would be what we call an "assembly" kit like a TC, Lyman, Traditions or CVA. The kits are mostly done and take very little fitting and work to put them together. Most of the work would be applying finish to wood and metal.

A Kibler kit is next, very precise stock shaping, parts and stock inletting, some parts drop in, some have to be fitted with a little wood removal. The early Kibler kits had cast parts that had to have a final finish on the metal and some fitting to the inlet, most are CNC shaped now and don't require much filing and fitting. All of the holes are drilled in the stock but you do have to drill through the lugs and install pins. For someone who has done a CVA or Traditions kit, this would be a good next step. You will end up with a perfectly shaped historically correct rifle.

Jim Kibler has extensive videos on how to put together his kits, follow them and you can't go wrong unless you think you are smarter than Mr. Jim, think have a better way of doing things and really muck things up. I call this complicating a simple task to the point of failure.

If you want an actual period correct rifle or fowler but doubt your skills you can buy a gun in the white, no finish on wood or metal but already assembled.

Third would be a parts kit with a pre-carved stock. These have all the parts but lots of fitting, drilling, final inletting and some stock shaping is involved. Figure some wood and metal working skills and at least a hundred hours to complete this kit. The pre-carves I have bought have been flawed and took a bunch of work to correct the bad shaping errors. I have not put together a Chambers kit and only hear good stuff about them.

Parts kits are available from Chambers, Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica and several other places with Chambers being the best.

http://www.flintlocks.com/

There are lots of videos on putting together a parts kit on You Tube, each step, watch a few to help make your decision.

Lastly is a scratch build I have made two of these, it took me two years on the first (I got lost every now and then and had to back off), one year on the second and I suspect 6 months on the next. I kinda' know what I am doing now. Scratch builds are easier than pre-carved kit builds because you control how all of the parts fit together and are not dependent on some random duplicator that can be off by a mile. I had the barrel inletted and ramrod hole drilled on all of my scratch builds because as a rookie I didn't trust myself to do the job.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

If you order a Kibler fowler kit you won't need much more than a small chisel and some sandpaper for the wood, I don't know how finished the metal mounts are and if they still have casting marks but a small file and some sandpaper is all you need to slick them up. Most of the parts on a Kibler are CNC shaped to be mostly finished.

For the more involved project like a Chambers kit, it sounds like you have everything you need, a shop would be nice but a lot of these guns were built on a kitchen table by folk who improvised and came up with what they needed.

I wrote this up for the same question a few years ago and saved it;

A little more on M/L building, there are a bunch of options available;

First would be what we call an "assembly" kit like a TC, Lyman, Traditions or CVA. The kits are mostly done and take very little fitting and work to put them together. Most of the work would be applying finish to wood and metal.

A Kibler kit is next, very precise stock shaping parts and stock inletting, some parts drop in, some have to be fitted with a little wood removal. The early Kibler kits had cast parts that had to have a final finish one the metal, most are CNC shaped now and don't require much filing and fitting. All of the holes are drilled in the stock but you do have to drill through the lugs and install pins. For someone who has done a CVA or Traditions kit, this would be a good next step. You will end up with a perfectly shaped historically correct rifle.

Jim Kibler has extensive videos on how to put together his kits, follow them and you can't go wrong unless you think you are smarter than Mr. Jim, think have a better way of doing things and really muck things up. I call this complicating a simple task to the point of failure.

If you want an actual period rifle or fowler but doubt your skills you can buy a gun in the white, no finish on wood or metal but already assembled.

Third would be a parts kit with a pre-carved stock. These have all the parts but lots of fitting, drilling, final inletting and some stock shaping is involved. Figure some wood and metal working skills and at least a hundred hours to complete this kit. The pre-carves I have bought have been flawed and took a bunch of work to correct the bad shaping errors. I have not put together a Chambers kit and only hear good stuff about them.

Parts kits are available from Chambers, Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica and several other places with Chambers being the best.

http://www.flintlocks.com/

There are lots of videos on putting together a parts kit on You Yube, each step, watch a few to help make your decision.

Lastly is a scratch build I have made two of these, took me two years on the first, one year on the second and I suspect 6 months on the next. I kinda' know what I am doing now. Scratch builds are easier than pre-carved kit builds because you control how all of the parts fit together and are not dependent on some random duplicator that can be off a mile. I had the barrel inletted and ramrod hole drilled on all of my scratch build kits because as a rookie I didn't trust myself to do the job.

Thanks for that Eric!

 

[bldtrailer]

Ok I use a Costco table with collapsible legs I had to sandbag the legs to add weight make it more solid but it worked

and used this

clamped to the table for 2 builds not perfect but it works and is take down when not in use 1st build on this

I used a camera tripod to hold the stock when needed with padding

here is the costco table it adjust up to bar height (not my living room LOL)

this was this years build on the above

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

It looks great!

 

[rich pierce]

I built my first few guns kneeling on our apartment floor over a cheap plastic Black and Decker vise. These were built from blanks. With the kits that require real fitting and such, you will need drills and taps, a number of chisels, rasps, files, and rough shaping tools of your choice.

 

[akroguy]

Kitchen table, clamp-on vise, drop cloth for spills. Good to go.

 

[stubshaft]

FWIW - I live in a one-bedroom apartment, and it hasn't stopped me from building smokepoles.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

FWIW - I live in a one-bedroom apartment, and it hasn't stopped me from building smokepoles.

Any special tricks you have developed along the way?

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I live in, basically, an apartment. I live alone so I can do whatever I want, within reason. Only thing I can't do is build something like a heavy, solid work bench, so I don't have one of those, or a vise, obviously. My question is, how difficult is it really to build a kit gun from those that are available now? I've always wanted to build a smooth-bore flintlock. I am skilled at wood working and finishing, some metal working. I have quite a fair supply of hand tools, power tools, measuring tools, a Dremel, a solid kitchen table and a Workmate table. I also have a nice gun cradle with a clamping device to hold a long-gun. All of this is in my storage unit so it's readily available. I have plenty of time in the evenings after my work day so I could just take my time and pick away at it. I'm wondering if ordering a kit would be foolish for me or should I wait until I have access to a proper work shop, which may be a fairly long time for me. What are your thoughts about it?

Thought: You do not have the best situation, but neither did some of our pioneers that worked by candlelight. If you have desire, I say go for it. No desire, better forget it.
Larry

 

[stubshaft]

Any special tricks you have developed along the way?

Only thing that I can tell you is to go SLOW and be sure whatever you are working on is well supported.

 

[RocketMan58]

Assuming you don't have a wife that is going to rant over you taking over the kitchen, it sounds like you have everything needed (Including the skills and attitude). I'd add to get a 3 head floor lamp for directed lighting and a vacuum cleaner for dust and chips. Anything else can be procured/improvised if needed as you go along.
These things are like potato chips, you won't stop at one anyway. FWIW, I built my first one over 40 years ago in 650 sf apartment.

 

[rp77469]

Built my first couple kits using a clamp on B&D table top Workmate on the kitchen table. Made small specialty chisels from concrete nails and old screwdrivers with a propane torch and the anvil on a CHEAP 4" vise. Amazing what you can do when you don't know it "can't be done that way".

 

[TrophyGuy]

I built a Thompson Center Hawken kit rifle with far less tools and skill than you have in an apartment bedroom. Simple inletting, sanding, filling and wood finishing were simple. Draw filing the barrel was tedious but successful. I mis-drilled a tang screw, but a wood plug and a friend's drill press fixed it. In those days there were many gunsmiths doing hot blueing and I took advantage of it to get a rifle better finished than factory. Still have that Hawken almost 50 years later. You can easily do it.

 

[flatcreek]

This is my setup, although I have plenty of space this I think would work well for you. It's a 50 dollar parrot vice and a wood support mounted to a piece of 5/4 popular and clamped to the table. It can be turned so the vice is on the left or right and the vice and the wood support both swivel.

 

[Tumbledown]

Ok I use a Costco table with collapsible legs I had to sandbag the legs to add weight make it more solid but it workedView attachment 372141View attachment 372142and used this View attachment 372144clamped to the table for 2 builds not perfect but it works and is take down when not in use 1st build on thisView attachment 372146I used a camera tripod to hold the stock when needed with paddingView attachment 372151here is the costco table it adjust up to bar height (not my living room LOL)View attachment 372265this was this years build on the above

What's that clamping rig?

Got to look for that type of table. The kitchen table is just too low.

 

[Sagebrush]

I've put together a few kits. Recently a Kibler Fowler. I was amazed how easy it was. I think you'll need some kind of bench and a vise. I highly recommend Grizzly's pattern-making vise.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

Built my first couple kits using a clamp on B&D table top Workmate on the kitchen table. Made small specialty chisels from concrete nails and old screwdrivers with a propane torch and the anvil on a CHEAP 4" vise. Amazing what you can do when you don't know it "can't be done that way".

Thanks! That last sentence is awesome!

 

[mikesto44]

If I was going to do a kit in an apartment. The Kibler is the way to go. Period..! They are incredibly easy to do.
You don't need a bunch of tools. A drill couple of chiseled sandpaper and pres to

 

[tiklikker]

If I was going to do a kit in an apartment. The Kibler is the way to go. Period..! They are incredibly easy to do.
You don't need a bunch of tools. A drill couple of chiseled sandpaper and pres to

I haven't built a Kibler. But I built my French Fusil C smoothbore (Avatar)in the basement using a Black & Decker folding workbench, Pool Table and a Bar as my workshop. The Kibler should be very successful in your case.