More Dead Horse Beatings: Pins

[Marc Adamchek]

I was just wasting, uh, spending some time watching some cap 'n ball videoes on YouTube and two of them surprised me.

One guy, DTSurvival, was loading his Walker on half-cock, then proceeded to push the hammer forward onto a safety pin. He also charged each chamber with 50 grs of 777, which seemed steep from what I've read. Is it?

The other guy was our old friend Mike Beliveau (duelist1954) and that was a surprise. He did the same thing on a Uberti 1862 Police revolver. His words, verbatim: "what we're going to do is put it on half cock, then drop it on the pin."

My trials and tribulations showed me that to put the hammer onto a safety pin from half-cock the hammer has to be forced. I'm still hoping I didn't mess up the timing form this act of stupidity. I then learned from the esteemed members here to just pull the hammer back a little way until the cylinder turns, then drop it.

I believe it was either Zonie or Wick who said that once the hammer was on half-cok it had to be pulled all the way back before being dropped. And no truer words were ever spoken, at least as far as I'm concerned.

What gives?

 

[pargent]

yep a worn gun with an expert using it :shake:

 

[LRB]

I said the hammer "should" be drawn to full cock, then let down. By bringing the hammer to half cock, the half moon cut out in the tine of the bolt spring is sitting on the hammer cam. To let it down at this time, puts unnecessary stress on that spring tempered tine as it is being forced to work in reverse of it's designed operation, and adds unnecessary wear on both it and the cam. The tine cut out is beveled to ride up and over the beveled cam. In reverse it's squared base is being forced over the cam in a reverse action. This is possible to cause the tine to break. Breakage may never happen, but it is also possible for it to break the very first time.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Wick, I fear I invited this damage to come in the near future by forcing the hammer down from half-cock. Let me tell you this; I safely put the hammer resting on a pin. Now when I draw the hammer back to half cock the cylinder first moves a bit to the left and then cycles to the right (as it should).

Is that little "reverse step" indicative of any problem? I noticed all the cylinder notches now have a jagged strip of steel showing through the bluing (fluted cylinder)as well. There isn't any scoring of the cylinder, but these marks at the bottom of the notches are troubling.

 

[George T.]

On my 1860's they will both require a full cock and then lower it onto the pin. I rotate the cylinder by hand. You know some wear and tear is a fact of life in the lock up notch's. I can not deal with it dragging all around but hey it has to go into lock up. My Cimmaron is brand new so I am almost looking forward to being able to relax and enjoy it. I will not be hitting it with steel wool though! Geo. T.

 

[LRB]

I don't think you have done any damage. It sounds like you have rough edges or burs on the bolt. Wear on the blue in the notch is to be expected, and in the bolt leads. Ideally these lead cuts should be smooth as well as the bolt. The edges of the bolt should be very slightly rounded. Just enough to break the sharp edges which could be making these marks. The top face of the bolt can be polished to minimize cylinder scoreing. Do not take the following as an endorsed recommendation, but, if the tine on the forked spring, that pressures the bolt is carefully reduced in thickness, in a tapered reduction, you can greatly reduce wear on the cylinder and the bolt. If the other tine is done the same, you can reduce trigger weight. This is a cut and try proceedure. Take too much off and reliability of lock up can be lost. You can also buy or make a replacement spring from music wire and adjust it the way you want by bending. These forked springs are the greatest weakness in the Colt type 6 guns. Breakage is very common, and it is good to have a spare on hand. I can only speak from my experience, but I have done many of these tine reductions and it is my opinion that by tapering the thickness, it makes the spring less likely to break later on. I don't know of any that have broken that I tapered and lightened. May be luck though. I do the job with a drum sander on a Dremel and keep the spring cool. Be aware though, the proceedure is not without risk. It would be good to go ahead and buy a spare to have in case things go wrong. The hand spring can also be done in this manner to reduce wear on the ratchet, but the drum sander must be used in the direction that it will not catch the end of that spring as you make a pass, or it may snap it off. This also applies to the forked spring.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Wick - Thanks very much for the education and assessment. I will buy a couple of those springs today "just in case" down the road.

 

[M. De Land]

The only real bolt timing problem in my opinion, is bolt lift clearance but folks tend to think drag marks on the cylinder from early bolt drop is a sure sign of timing trouble.
If the hand is trying to turn the ratchet before the bolt is clear of the notch than that needs correction.
You will notice binding or a shiny spot, top middle, back corner of the cylinder notch if bolt clearance timing is slow. MD

 

[M. De Land]

Good post Wick! One of the things I have done on these two fingered springs is replace them with ones I make from old Luftkin tape measures. The recoil spring in these is made from a very high chromium stainless steel and they are practically fail proof. Very hard to work and cut, most must be done with a slitting wheel on a dremel and a carbide bit for the hole but I've never had one break since discovering this steel.
I suppose I could have annealed them but chose to work them hard as I didn't know the protocol to re-harden and draw them.
It does give the term "tough steel" new meaning. MD