More Hawken Challenges

[drwhip]

Settled in for a little chip makin' on the S. Hawken yesterday and ran into a few problems...er...I mean challenges. This is a piece that I'm making from parts gathered over the years: Bob Roller lock that I bought back in the 80's, Hawken shop triggers that I bought back about the same time. The Roller lock was not his Hawken lock, looking more like a Golcher, and with the exception of the bolster being a wee bit thin, appeared it would do the job nicely. So I inletted the lock yesterday and found that as I was getting it down into final position the mainspring was too wide. Actually went into the barrel channel with the chisel a bit so I took out the mainspring and ground down the spring carefully so as to not change the temper. Seems to have worked just fine without losing any (or very little) strength in the spring. Was a bit nervous about doing that but didn't see many other options. The wood immediatly in front of the lock is looking rather skeletonized and skinny (guess this is normal?) so I hope it'll be strong enough when she's all together. So then I lay those triggers where they're supposed to go and now I have the next challenge...the rear arm of the sear is significantly higher than the top of my triggers. This is from eyeballing, but I don't think the trigger will contact the sear arm until the very top of it's throw, either set or unset. If I put the triggers where it looks like they'll work I'm way too deep in the stock and I'll end up with an improper top to bottom measurement. I guess my only option is to build up the top of the triggers by running beads of weld along the top until I get the height I want and then take it from there. Any thoughts on this one? Anyone run into similar challenges when using parts from different sources?
Thanks and warmest regards, Bearman

 

[rich pierce]

This is all normal. Hawkens are among the hardest rifles to build and get right, mechanically and aesthetically. They are very complex mechanically compared to early flint-breeched guns. The hooked breech and long tang complicates life and inletting a tang into an already profiled wrist is no fun.

Are you working from drawings and a blank or a pre-carved stock? Precarves are made with a specific parts set in mind. It is important to get away from that mindset when using different parts. The architecture of the gun must flow from the parts, not the other way around. That's because the gun must first function properly- it's meant to shoot. Then the builder can deal with style issues. Precarves are backwards in this regard. They force the builder to modify the parts to fit a pre-conceived architecture. We forget in this world of standardized parts and pre-carved stocks that guns by any maker varied considerably over time and even in the same era. If Sam was using this lock and those triggers, the stock would be more slim in profile.



If you have a pre-carved stock and are stuck with it's lines, then you will have to build up the triggers as you suggested. Remember the parts need to be hardened in order to work properly so you will need to re-harden and temper when you are done.

 

[drwhip]

I'm using a pre-carved from TOW and working off the prints from Greg at the Hawken Shop. I've even been over to Helena to measure Bridger's Hawken on display there. Thought I heard a Blackfoot yell as I was looking down the sights :shocking:I even dug up a copy of a Buckskin Report in which Mike Nesbitt did a review on these triggers after he had placed them in the gun and there was no mention of height problem.....Oh well. Now I know there is approx 1/16 to 1/8 overage of wood in the area mentioned but I'm afraid of going so far in on the trigger inlet that I end up with a big ol' belly in the line into the forend. One belly (the one over my belt) is enough to deal with for this child. Maybe I'll draw a few lines and see exactly how much extra wood I've got to work with. Regards, Bearman

 

[Donny]

Seems I recall reading where wasn't sure why, so I guess, a heavy (wide)mainspring can be used??

 

[2172]

I had a Dixie GW sxs that suffered from storage in different conditions so that the locks began to fit a bit differently than they should...I ended up with the left trigger sitting too low to hit the sear. We brazed a piece of steel to the top of the trigger, and it has worked fine ever since...I'd go for adding to the trigger..Hank

 

[Hud]

I had a front trigger that was too short in a Tennesse rife one time. I silver solderd on a extra piece of steel to the top of the trigger bar, and filed it down to match the profile. It worked great, and is still working...


Hud

 

[Herb]

Put on your underrib first and entry pipe. Then you know where the bottom of the stock will be, a straight line back to the trigger plate. I have silver soldered a bit of steel onto the top of triggers. Have done four Bridger hawkens now but I'd have to look up my work logs to see if the triggers fit right to begin with, though I know one or two didn't. We had that Jim Bridger Hawken you saw down at the Green River Rifle Works in Roosevelt, Utah in 1978 and took the lock out of it. But I don't remember anything about it.

 

[drwhip]

Hi Herb,
I saw the copy you guys built at GRRW when I was in Helena to see the original. A very nice piece indeed. Now it resides in the basement where it hasn't seen the light of day in quite some time. George Oberst, the firearms curator, pulled it out for me to inspect. It's never been fired, hardly seen by anybody 'cept those that live down in that basement. It's still in it's presentation box complete with the blanket cover that came with it. I asked George if they had any plans for the gun..."I guess we'll just keep it down here" was all he said. A shame. She should be belchin' smoke in my humble opinion.
The entry pipe has been inlet and I've scribed a line down to the trigger. Looks like I've got a little wood to lose, though I think I'm still gonna be short in the trigger height. I'm going to go ahead and inlet them in and see where I'm at after that, but I think I'll be building them up a bit. Is it best to silver solder some thin flat stock on top or should I go ahead and run some beads of weld to build up the height? Haven't done much of either but I've got some friends that could help me out with it if needed. Good friend of my father in law's is Monte Mandarino. Now there's a hoss that might be able to shed some light on this! I've been trying to avoid calling him 'cause I want to really get his help and input on the Lancaster I'm planning on building after this one is done. Thanks to everyone that's replied. I sure do appreciate this forum.
Keep yer powder dry, Bearman

 

[BLAHMAN]

I understand your problem, I too had the same problem when I attempted to build something of the same, using a pre-carved stock. That episode was a great learning experiance. I vowed never to use a pre-carved stock again....it doesn' allow for different variables.

My solution was to take some flat stock steel (I don't believe it was hardened) and I simply soldered it to the trigger. That didn't (I suspect) upset the hardness/tempering of the trigger itself.

The piece I used was higher than wanted, so I simply notched the plate where the sear would lay (used a small round file). It worked good and held together.

 

[Herb]

That's how I did it, too. You may need to file the top to get it correct, it's easy to do.