Most authentic cap & ball revolvers?

[Coot]

My personal opinion is that the Colt 2nd generation are the most authentic & best made CW era revolvers (non antique) that you can find. What are your votes for some of the most accurately reproduced and best quality build CW era revolvers that might be on the market today? They do not have to currently be in production as long as they can still be found at gun shows or sites like GunBroker. Not looking for custom one-off guns but commercially produced ones. Not looking for "best value for a shooter" but best build quality & most likely to be mistaken for a mint original. What say guys?

 

[bkovire]

i'd say colt, if you mean make, ubreta if you mean model, the walker.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Uberti makes the very best replica versions of the CW era revolvers.
Even the over priced 2nd generation Colt's are made by Uberti.
The internal quality of the Uberti's far outdistance the competitors, like Pietta (spelling ?)or ASM (Armi San Marco)
The 1860 Colt is a work of art, in it's design and concept.
The 1851 Colt is a joy to hold and shoot.
The Walker, 2nd & 3rd dragoon pistols are unto themselves in balance and appearance.
I sound like a salesman for Uberti, but we are very fortunate, for a manufacturer with the skills like Uberti, to give us the rebirth of the fine Colts that we have today.
Because the idea of holding and shooting a 1851 Navy would only be a dream of the common man, without the fine recreations of Uberti.
Old Ford

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I'm not a museum curator, I'm just a shooter. A member here, BP Revolver is a historian on this subject, and he'll be best able to answer the specific questions regarding which brand replica and what models are closer to the originals. I remember seeing a post by him about this subject a good while ago. It has something to do with the shields behind the cylinders (I think?).

You could give him a PT if he doesn't pop in here soon.

Dave

 

[Rock Island]

I can not speak as to how well any of the reproductions match up to the originals as I do not own any originals. I can speak for the quality of the revolvers that I own, and Uberti definitely has an edge in this department. I find the level of fit, and finish to be high, the cylinder timing perfect, accuracy outstanding, and the overall look, and feel of the weapon is superb. I have Pietta revolvers as well, and they are well built, better than they were years ago, but many models do not keep to the original pattern ( .44 Navy?), and fit, and finish tend to be a bit less in most cases than the Uberti models. The exception being the Starr, and Lemat revolvers, Pietta outdid themselves here. The fit and finish exhibited in my Uberti 49 pocket, Walker, Dragoon, 60 Army, and 61 Navy is higher than that found on several of my modern handguns, that deep blue reminds me of a 19th century Mauser. My Uberti Remingtons have the "millennium' parkerized finish, but the rest of the revolver is high quality.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Uberti makes the very best replica versions of the CW era revolvers.
Even the over priced 2nd generation Colt's are made by Uberti.
The internal quality of the Uberti's far outdistance the competitors, like Pietta (spelling ?)or ASM (Armi San Marco)
The 1860 Colt is a work of art, in it's design and concept.
The 1851 Colt is a joy to hold and shoot.
The Walker, 2nd & 3rd dragoon pistols are unto themselves in balance and appearance.
I sound like a salesman for Uberti, but we are very fortunate, for a manufacturer with the skills like Uberti, to give us the rebirth of the fine Colts that we have today.
Because the idea of holding and shooting a 1851 Navy would only be a dream of the common man, without the fine recreations of Uberti.
Old Ford

Untruths are perpetrated on the web forever. The 2nd gen Colt's were not made by Uberti, no way, no how. Uberti supplied raw frames and cylinders that Colt made in to a completed revolver.

If you compare to two revolvers side by side there is a world of difference. That's why a Uberti Walker is $350 and a 2nd gen Colt Walker is 1k.

All the credit you direct at Uberti for replica cap and ball revolvers should be directed at Val Forgett and Lou Imperato.

In the mid to late 1950's Val took a 51 Navy in to Italy so they could copy it. All this started with Val Forgett.

Second Gen.s were made at Colt factory. first ones,the "C" series and Commeratives, 1971-1974 Castings were supplied by Val Forgett, Navy Arms (Uberti castings), but everything else was made and finished at Colt.

Second ones,The "F" series and Commeratives)1975-1978 Lou Imperato furnished the castings(Uberti) and built the "F" series in the old Iver Johnson factory but internals and screws and pins were made in USA. Guns were finished at IJ factory and QC'd by Colt.

end rant


Pietta makes some of the less common revolvers on the market and do a good job of it. ASM was making very nice guns before they folded. Uberti is hit and miss with me. I've had as many poorly made as OK.

 

[poordevil]

Wern't the Colt's, made in the 1970's, that continued the SS#'s over from the percussion period, made in USA and by Colt? I have heard that the Colt (Sam'l Colt) Signiture series were not 100% American.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

To add to what Coot and madcratebuilder said; the following link to author Dennis Adler's article provides good information on the 2nd Generation Colt cap and ball revolvers:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/cap--ball-resurrection?packedargs=pagenum%3D1

The discontinued Colt Signature Series were produced under license from Colt in New York by the Imperato family who currently make the "Henry" brand rifles.

The Signature Series used rough Italian parts finished in New York.

As has been noted in previous threads some of the Fjestad Blue Books have good information on the 2nd Generations and Signature Series. Your local library's reference section likely will have a Fjestad Blue Book.

The 2nd Generation Colt cap and ball revolvers are top drawer for being very close to the originals and the quality is very high. My favorite is the 1851 Navy having bought my first one in the early 1970's.

 

[mykeal]

We're leaving out the Rogers & Spencer, replicas made by Euroarms, Pedersoli and Feinwerkbau. I've only handled the Euroarms example, but I'm told they are very faithful to the original; as regards quality, mine are both very good but not perfect. By reputation, the Feinwerkbau example would be as close as one could get. I've seen pictures of good quality originals and the Feinwerkbau and cannot tell them apart. Likewise, my Euroarms examples look identical to the photographs of the originals.

Uberti makes fine guns, but like others I've seen the rare lemon. The 2nd Generation Colts, however, are superb examples and would have to get my vote for the best Colt replicas.

 

[Coot]

We're leaving out the Rogers & Spencer, replicas made by Euroarms, Pedersoli and Feinwerkbau. I've only handled the Euroarms example, but I'm told they are very faithful to the original; as regards quality, mine are both very good but not perfect. By reputation, the Feinwerkbau example would be as close as one could get. I've seen pictures of good quality originals and the Feinwerkbau and cannot tell them apart. Likewise, my Euroarms examples look identical to the photographs of the originals.

Uberti makes fine guns, but like others I've seen the rare lemon. The 2nd Generation Colts, however, are superb examples and would have to get my vote for the best Colt replicas.

So you think that the Feinwerkbau would be the best Rogers & Spencer replica? I have not seen one but will gladly listen to those who have. What interests me is what would be the most authentic & best made of each type of revolver. For Colts, I think that it is the 2nd generations but for Remingtons, Griswold & Gunnison, Starr, etc., I don't know but would like to. Some models may not be represented by a high quality reproduction.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Wern't the Colt's, made in the 1970's, that continued the SS#'s over from the percussion period, made in USA and by Colt? I have heard that the Colt (Sam'l Colt) Signiture series were not 100% American.

The 3rd gen Colt "signature series" were made by Lou Imperato under a licensing agreement with Colt.

Lou Imperato also supplied the frames and cylinders(Uberti raw parts)for the F series 2nd gen Colts.

Imperota used the same Uberti raw parts as he used with the 2nd gens along with the grip frames and wood grips from Uberti to make the 3rd gens. He used many of the same employees and north American venders for the small parts on the 3rd gens. He used a different bluing and initially used Colt for the color case work. Eventually the color case was done in house.

I have a few 2nd and 3rd gens and I can tell you the major difference in the two is the bluing and the quality control. And that butt ugly signature on the back strap! Some times the 3rd gens well come up short on fit and finish, but the ones that are well done are every bit as nice as the any well done F series 2nd gen. Oh yea, there is one more difference, the licensing agreement. So technically the 3rd gens are not a real Colt.

 

[mykeal]

...but for Remingtons, Griswold & Gunnison, Starr, etc., I don't know but would like to. Some models may not be represented by a high quality reproduction.

There are many others better qualified than me to vote on Remington replicas, also the G&G. I believe the only company that has made the Starr is Pietta, so that one's pretty easy.

 

[Long Johns Wolf]

Regarding the Colt 1860 group of pistols the Belgian made Centaures from the 1959-73 period are to be mentioned here.
In terms of steel used & because chamber diameters are adjusted the same as rifling groove diameters this sets them apart from modern made C&B revolvers.
Long Johns Wolf

 

[mazo kid]

If you are looking for the FINEST quality, I would suggest USFA. I don't have one of their C&B revolvers, but do have an 1873 Colt and it is as good or better in fit, finish, quality as an original. They used to be made under the Colt "Blue Dome" but think they moved a bit away as the building was put on the Historical list.

 

[LRB]

I strongly second Mazo kid. USFA produces better Colts than Colt ever did.

 

[arcticap]

My personal opinion is that the Colt 2nd generation are the most authentic & best made CW era revolvers (non antique) that you can find. What are your votes for some of the most accurately reproduced and best quality build CW era revolvers that might be on the market today? They do not have to currently be in production as long as they can still be found at gun shows or sites like GunBroker. Not looking for custom one-off guns but commercially produced ones. Not looking for "best value for a shooter" but best build quality & most likely to be mistaken for a mint original. What say guys?

Besides appearance, I'm not exactly sure what the criteria is that leads to the conclusion that Colt 2nd Generation Colts are the "most authentic" and"best made".

Those just might be 2 completely separate categories.
After all, there's the better made shooters and then there are those having a better and more authentic appearance.
Considering that such a large percentage of Colt 2nd Generation revolvers were never even turned or fired, how does anyone know that the vast majority of them are good shooters at all?
They probably are the most beautiful and may even have an authentic finish. But does that make them the best shooters?
I don't know since I've never seen any performance results and I don't hear about folks rushing to shoot them in competition.
What are their spec.'s and what is it about their spec.'s that makes them perform so well?
Who really knows if most of them perform well at all?
Just because they're expensive and have a great finish doesn't mean that they are well built or that they all shoot good.
Maybe some do and maybe some don't.
I'm sure that there's some Colt 2nd Generation lemons out there somewhere still in their boxes waiting for their major flaws to be discovered.
Meanwhile, there's the highly desirable Santa Barbara Remingtons that were made in Spain and that are widely used for competition in Europe.
There's also the Pietta Shooter's Model that are reputed to also be good shooters as well as the Hege Army Match Maximum.
Some might not be the most authentic looking or handsomest revolvers, but they just might be made from superior materials or have the best spec.'s and hand tuned performance, especially for their price.

So then does authenticity mean that the revolver doesn't necessarily need to shoot as well, or be made as well or be as durable? Or does it mean that it just needs look more like the original?
Comparatively speaking, these criteria do seem to be somewhat more mutally exclusive than they are mutually inclusive.

 

[B. Miller]

Quality wise for the Remington it would be the Hege Maximum Remington Revolver. Last I looked they were running between $1,400.00 to $1,500.00. Hege is also making a hand made competition Colt replica for those particular countries that prohibit the ownership of a solid frame revolver i.e. Poland. I can not say about authenticity but I have been told that the specifications for international competition are more stringent than the N-SSA who approves firearms for competition based on their representation of an original.

Bruce

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Interesting observation, and well said!

I'll continue to enjoy shooting my Uberti replicas, but if someone wants to send me a real Colt so that I can compare the two (by using it) and write about it here I'd be glad to do so! :haha:

Dave

 

[Coot]

My personal opinion is that the Colt 2nd generation are the most authentic & best made CW era revolvers (non antique) that you can find. What are your votes for some of the most accurately reproduced and best quality build CW era revolvers that might be on the market today? They do not have to currently be in production as long as they can still be found at gun shows or sites like GunBroker. Not looking for custom one-off guns but commercially produced ones. Not looking for "best value for a shooter" but best build quality & most likely to be mistaken for a mint original. What say guys?

Besides appearance, I'm not exactly sure what the criteria is that leads to the conclusion that Colt 2nd Generation Colts are the "most authentic" and"best made".

Those just might be 2 completely separate categories.
After all, there's the better made shooters and then there are those having a better and more authentic appearance.
Considering that such a large percentage of Colt 2nd Generation revolvers were never even turned or fired, how does anyone know that the vast majority of them are good shooters at all?
They probably are the most beautiful and may even have an authentic finish. But does that make them the best shooters?
I don't know since I've never seen any performance results and I don't hear about folks rushing to shoot them in competition.
What are their spec.'s and what is it about their spec.'s that makes them perform so well?
Who really knows if most of them perform well at all?
Just because they're expensive and have a great finish doesn't mean that they are well built or that they all shoot good.
Maybe some do and maybe some don't.
I'm sure that there's some Colt 2nd Generation lemons out there somewhere still in their boxes waiting for their major flaws to be discovered.
Meanwhile, there's the highly desirable Santa Barbara Remingtons that were made in Spain and that are widely used for competition in Europe.
There's also the Pietta Shooter's Model that are reputed to also be good shooters as well as the Hege Army Match Maximum.
Some might not be the most authentic looking or handsomest revolvers, but they just might be made from superior materials or have the best spec.'s and hand tuned performance, especially for their price.

So then does authenticity mean that the revolver doesn't necessarily need to shoot as well, or be made as well or be as durable? Or does it mean that it just needs look more like the original?
Comparatively speaking, these criteria do seem to be somewhat more mutally exclusive than they are mutually inclusive.

Sorry if there is any confusion here. My original post did not ask anything about how accurately any of these guns shoot. What I am asking is how authentic the reproduction is when compared to the originals. The size, shape, materials, type of sights, finish, placement of pins & screws, weight, markings, type of rifling, etc.. Which reproduction would be the choice of a collector who cannot afford an original but wants to get as close as possible in a commercially made gun? The build quality goes to the fit, finish, timing, materials, tolerances and assembly. Guns which may be marvelous but were only hand made in very small numbers do not really apply here as they are more of a "custom" gun even if several were produced to the same specs. Guns like say the Ruger Old Army may shoot really well & be made really well but they are not a reproduction of an original CW era gun which are the topic of this thread. Questions about which guns may be eligible for various competition or reenactment uses, which are best value for a shooter and which are most accurate for target shooting are all perfectly valid but should be addressed in new topics. I appreciate the information that has been provided so far and hope that this clears up the question raised.

 

[poordevil]

If I was to make up a collection of C&B revolvers shuch as the Colts and Remingtons I would chose Uberti, hands down. Very high quility and look right, IMHO.

P