No, I understand the trade continued well up to about 1870. But for ronny purposes, I am with others who disdain the sight of Colt revolvers and other 'modern' devices.
Mountain men & Plains hunters
- Thread starter F.G. Ford
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
No, I understand the trade continued well up to about 1870. But for ronny purposes, I am with others who disdain the sight of Colt revolvers and other 'modern' devices.
On a cold winter night west of the absaroka and south of the three white breast three fingers Tom black Joni's and little bill Roberts were setting in a camp when three fingers looked up and said" dang its first day of 1841.'i spect we're going to have ta give up being Mountian men. 'Old little bill spoke up and said 'I caint wait I'm a going to buy me a colt pistol and a sharps rifle '
.54 flintlock is my choice. If I was there then I would know how to make it work and not have to worry about having no caps when I dropped my bag n stuff high tailing it away from the injuns.
Good one! Like so many of Gary Larson's cartoons. I can see the REAL reason why the mountain man became extinct. #1) A giant asteroid hits the planet somewhere near Denver Jan.1,1841. #2)The very last Rendezvous back in 1840 became a mass wedding ceremony where every single mnt man was wed to a boatload of Russian mail order brides. The following morning the entire group moved into the valley to raise sheep and children. #3)Wampum Slim accidently set fire to the powder tent while in a drunken stupor. The tent along with the entire area surrounding the rendezvous camp is now known as crater lake. #4)The last Rendezvous was canceled on account of a provisions blunder. Seems a shipment of Canadian whiskey was mistakenly sent to Salt Lake City's Mormon settlement and their shipment of sassparilla ended up at the mountain man encampment. The vicious tirade that followed left no survivors. The Mormon's however mysteriously found their membership had tripled in less than a week! :rotf:
Rifleman1776 said:
"The Colt legend dates to 1836, when the United States Government issued Sam Colt a patent for the world’s first commercially viable revolving cylinder firearm."
See? You could go all the way to 1836!
Actually, is there any evidence that a Colt revolver was at any rendezvous (last one being in 1840) ?
Kit Carson owened a colt in 1839. Off hand I don't recall when Carson left the trade. Bridger sponcered the last rendezvous in 1843. It lost money. So I wonder since there wasn't a 41,42 vous, was this the first rendezvous reinactment? Ol' Jim owned a Hawken rifle at this time. I wonder if any one told him real Mountian men carried plane Pennsylvania rifles and the Hawken belonged to the plains, Oragan trail, gold rush era.
One other thought, if it's nasty weather rainy and windy to s point where it would compromise a flinter, or when it's to cold to put on a nipple hugger, it's probably to nasty for game to be up and about. Nasty weather sees game sheltering, and Indians were smart enough to sit by the fire and smoke. If a white boy had a rock in the lock or a nipple hugger where it was to cold wet or windy to use he should have no fear. He is the only one fool enough to be out there.
tengun, after a few years of being here and reading over the years I'm almost convinced now the percussion gun didn't exist until the 1950s when Navy Arms helped start the modern reproduction era. They made percussion guns just for those of us to stupid or scared to shoot a flintlock.
And well for the Hawken, I've also been convinced the Hawken brothers were only able to turn out 3 or 4 in their whole lives...
:surrender:
And well for the Hawken, I've also been convinced the Hawken brothers were only able to turn out 3 or 4 in their whole lives...
:surrender:/tenngun said:
Actually there are references to both an 1841 and an 1842 rendezvous held in the Brown's Hole area of NW Colorado and IIRC one reference is to the use of revolvers by some mountaineers, but again this is post 1840.
The 1840 Rendezvous is considered by most historians as the last one since it was the last one put on by the last remaining real fur company aka American Fur at that time run by the Choteau family of ST. Louis.
By 1840 there were over 60 trading posts set up in the Rocky Mtn fur trapping area, including Ft Laramie and FT Hall which were both close to the old rendezvous sites, so there was no longer a reason for the fur companies to hold a rendezvous.
In 1843 Ft Bridger was built by, Jim Bridger and Henry Vazquez near the Green River in SW Wyoming along what had become the Oregon Trail. With all due respect to tenngun, but Bridger did not hold a rendezvous that year, but rather led the last brigade size group of trappers on a trip for fur that went as far north as the Milk River in Montana and not they did not make much money - much of the are had been over trapped and it would be a decade or so before the numbers were back up where trapping could again be profitable.
As to guns - prior to 1840 there were no purchases of percussion lock trade rifles by the major trade companies such as American Fur (the 600 lb gorilla of the western fur trade). In fact in an 1830 dated letter to the Henry gunsmith's of Boullton, that percussion locks would not do at all and only well made waterproof pan flintlocks would be used on any rifles ordered by them.
a bit more later such as most company trappers were in fact supplied by the company under a grubstake type contract. This is made clear in two period resources regarding Manuel Lisa's Missouri Fur Company in 1809 and a letter from Thomas Hempstead of Missouri Fur regarding the terms of the first Ashley-Henry Expedition's contract with it's trappers in 1821.
Remember thought that trappers were only one part of a company brigade, there were the river men, the engages, camp tenders, and camp hunters.
All true although my post was tounge and cheek. Some one was buying caps by 1830s as American fur was sending them to rendezvous. The "sudden" change from flint to percussion is more a modern myth then a reality of the time. The first rendezvous in 1825 was just a few years after the invention of caps. Did any one there have a newfangled gun? Certantly some one was shooting nipple hugger in the 1830s. All and all I like flint. I think they would not be hard to find as long as the common joe was likly to own a front stuffer until after the WBTS. Just as it's not hard to find revolvers and side by side shot guns, bolt action and lever actions today. At least a few Hawkins did get to rendezvous, and there remains no evedence that any flint Hawken was ever made. Do an avarage trapper before 1825 you best carry a flint. 1835 ? You can have a nipple hugger, though flint may have been more common. You can bet there were flints in California in the 1850s and precussion on the Santa Fe trail in 1825. What say you?
I just luv it when I can introduce a topic that stirs the pot!
But also it is great to get new and valuable information.
Thank you all!
Fred
But also it is great to get new and valuable information.
Thank you all!
Fred
cgn71 said:tengun, after a few years of being here and reading over the years I'm almost convinced now the percussion gun didn't exist until the 1950s when Navy Arms helped start the modern reproduction era. They made percussion guns just for those of us to stupid or scared to shoot a flintlock.
And well for the Hawken, I've also been convinced the Hawken brothers were only able to turn out 3 or 4 in their whole lives...
:rotf:
Wrong. :nono: The movie stars and liberals had them outlawed before that. :wink:
