musket caps vs. #11

[goofball]

I see that Cabelas has musket cap nipples for most rifles, including CVA. Should I convert from #11 to musket caps? I imagine that I would get better ignition.Any disadvantages?

 

[Tahquamenon]

Howdy!

I've never needed a musket cap on any rifle. Several thousand of Dynamit-Nobel RWS #1075's over several years and with numerous rifle types. Never a problem with the caps or the ignition of them. Have forgotten to pick the nipple now and then or you may need to clean the nipple, flash channel or bolster drum more periodically for extended shooting and/or the powder you are shooting.

More ignition is not always better (never has been in my experience). Musket caps also do foul more.

Are you having ignition problems? What powder are you using?

 

[Rebel]

Disadvantages? Well, they cost more, your hammer may not hit correctly on a musket capped nipple, and there really is no need for them to set off a charge of black powder, or even the subs in a caplock. Get a good Hot Shot nipple and some #11 CCI Magnim caps and you are all set. :m2c:

 

[goofball]

I have used 777 and Pyrodex (both FFG equiv.) and have had some ignition problems. Typically the first shot b/c of grease and oil, and after 20 shots or more I start getting short hang-fires...(click,Boom instead of just Boom.)I use a little plastic tube to blow out the nipple each shot, and I use the pick once every five shots or so. Would black powder solve the problem? ::

 

[roundball]

I have used 777 and Pyrodex (both FFG equiv.) and have had some ignition problems. Typically the first shot b/c of grease and oil, and after 20 shots or more I start getting short hang-fires...(click,Boom instead of just Boom.)I use a little plastic tube to blow out the nipple each shot, and I use the pick once every five shots or so. Would black powder solve the problem? ::

Goex blackpowder is certainly one that will eliminate ignition problems...fast, clean, and accurate...used to use Pyrodex years ago and thought it was excellent...until I switched to Goex...now my only disappointment is that I didn't switch to real blackpowder sooner!
:redthumb:

 

[cayugad]

I see that Cabelas has musket cap nipples for most rifles, including CVA. Should I convert from #11 to musket caps? I imagine that I would get better ignition.Any disadvantages?

I bought some musket caps and have a musket nipple for my CVA Staghorn Magnum. I really have not noticed any advantage to the musket cap. In fact if you change over, be careful, they like to come off the nipple. I have no reason why, but they do on the CVA nipple the company sent me.

If you're shooting loose powder a #11 is more then able to ignite powder. I think instead of looking into a hotter ignition, I would look into my swabbing, nipple picking and cleaning procedures first. If they are all correct, then maybe the musket nipple is the answer.

Good luck with your rifle.

 

[elcazador]

I convert a T/C thunderhawk to musket caps awhile back and it works fine with any powder or bp subsitute. The#11s where not bad but the musket caps are a inbetween between #11 n the 209 ignition system. The flange style caps from CCI stays on my nipple and don't slide off and fires consistent in a inline. I have the T/C flame thrower nipple that has like 3 holes to direct the fire into the load. Trust me, when I say it works fine.

Unless you need more fire or just plain like musket caps , no need to upgrade your system. I do think the musket caps are a better choice than the shotgun 209 primer tho.

 

[sidelock]

Switch to real BP and your troubles will be over-- as far a caps are concerned. :m2c:

 

[big bore 75]

I'll give ya my views on this subject #11's nipples are great after buying a hot shot or split shot nipples they work fantastic with real black powderand have nevr had a problem, untill this barrel I have now , it will not shoot anything else but pyro poo, if using a #11 first shot ill go off fairly well, next shot slight hang fire and tird deffinatly a hang fire, now the pyro poo is relatively new
after converting over to a musket nipple I get an even heat from the musket cap and have absolutley no ignition problems , which I adventagious for hunting applications, and even killed a few deer in mild to real damp conditions were the musket cap lit and all around me I hear pop fizz and losts of cussing, pyro and #11's, best thing I can suggest is to try it and see for your eslf. bb75

 

[Tahquamenon]

I have used 777 and Pyrodex (both FFG equiv.) and have had some ignition problems. Typically the first shot b/c of grease and oil, and after 20 shots or more I start getting short hang-fires...(click,Boom instead of just Boom.)I use a little plastic tube to blow out the nipple each shot, and I use the pick once every five shots or so. Would black powder solve the problem? ::

No I don't think black powder alone will solve your issues with misfires.

Also, I've never needed the hotshot or ported nipples either.

Not sure you really need to blow out the nipple each shot if you try the following (I've never done that anyway regardless of how many consecutive shots).

Not knowing what rifle you are shooting... Each one is different as to how long you can shoot until some cleaning is required. Your powder, the size of your charge and cap choice also has a great deal to do with this. Larger hunting loads = more fouling. Lighter target loads = less fouling.

Make sure your patches are not too gooped up with lube when loading. You really only need enough to moisten the patch with lube. If you are packing more than that, all of the excess is going to end up in the bottom of the bore and in the flash channel and sooner or later that can cause a misfire..

777 and Pyrodex FFG are among the more difficult to ignite (higher flash point). You could switch to a finer grain FFFG, just remember to reduce your loads by 15% for the finer grain powder. You will have much less fouling with 3FG powder.
Try Black Mag'3 or 777 3FG next time. Excellent substitute powders.

For black powder I cannot more highly recommend Swiss 3FG. The most clean, consistent and powerful BP I've ever shot. Otherwise Goex 3FG is a decent second if you cannot afford Swiss. Again, remember to reduce your 2FG loading data by about 15%. I shoot about 10 pounds of Swiss every year.

Caps = RWS Dynamit-Nobel #1075's. I can't count how many I've shot (10,000+?) without so much as one misfire as a result of the cap.

The grease and oil is easily taken care of before you start shooting.
Clean the bore with a dry patch to remove any excess lube, then re-lube the bore with a "lightly" natural lubed patch. Remove the nipple and "fish" the flash channel or clean the bolster drum with q-tips or pipe cleaners soaked in alcohol, followed by dry. Also clean your nipple with alcohol and dry.
This will remove any excess lube that had accumulated.
Re-grease the nipple and bolster threads with anti-seize lube and install a clean nipple. Now you are ready to go shooting.

At the range or in the field.
Then load as normal. However after adding your powder, with the bore upward, give your rifle a couple of taps with the palm of your hand on the nipple side of the barrel near the bolster or drum. This will help settle some powder into the flash channel and under or near the nipple.

This should help ensure that your first and each subsequent shot fires. Then periodically as you mentioned, you will need to pick the nipple and flash channel to ensure that it's clear.

I would loosen and then tighten (just snug) the nipple every 15-20 shots anyhow to ensure that nothing seizes up. Depending on how much fouling you are getting and how many shots you wish to do consecutively, you may need to remove the nipple every now and then to re-fish the flash channel, grease and re-install the nipple and continue.

:thumbsup: :imo: :m2c:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I've had slight hangfires with Pyrodex in several rifles, even underhammers. By "slight" I mean I hear the crack of the cap right on the front of the boom. I think most inexperienced shooters would not even recognize it as a hangfire. A switch to musket nipple on my Lyman Trade Rifle eliminated that, now I just hear BOOM.
Even with Goex I like the extra confidence I get from musket caps with hunting loads. For general plinking and target shooting I use standard #11's but if I had to shoot Pyrodex only I'd probably use Musket caps only. :results:

 

[Landngroove]

I put musket cap nipples on several of my T/C percussion, sidelock ml's, back when I was using Pyrodex. I would get an occasional hangfire, with Pyrodex, and #11's. Musket caps cured this. I no longer use Pyrodex. With the powders I use today, I use #11 caps, on my T/C Hawken, and Renegade. With correct cleaning, and loading I have no problem with ignition in these. On initial loading I run several dry patches down the bore, to remove any oil, snap off a couple of caps to dry ignition channel, use a pipe cleaner to clear nipple. I still use the musket caps on those earlier ml's. I do like the idea of the extra fire, to ignite.

 

[flintlockmdj]

I have had good luck in my C S Richmond with a #11 cap nipple.

 

I see that Cabelas has musket cap nipples for most rifles, including CVA. Should I convert from #11 to musket caps? I imagine that I would get better ignition.Any disadvantages?

I converted to musket cap nipples awhile ago. But, let me warn ya, its not as simple as just replacing the nipple.

Now, many a shooter here will tell you to use BP only. And I agree with them to a certain degree. I have to travel an hour to and an hour from my nearest source of real BP. With Homeland Security requirements, BP sources are drying up and Pyrodex and other substitutes are becoming your only available propellent. So, one needs a hotter source of ignition.

First, make sure the nipple you replace the original with has the proper threads for your gun.

Once the new nipple is installed, quite often your hammer will fall on the cap and nothing happens. The first thing many will tell you to do is to replace your main spring. This may help and again it may not. The most likely cause for this mis-fire is not the mainspring, but an over sized nipple cone.

To cure this problem, you will need masking tape, a power drill, a fine grain knife sharpening stone, dishsoap, a musket cap and a small amount of water. I generally do this job at the kitchen sink when the ole lady is not at home.

First wrap the threads of the nipple to be honed with masking tape. Two to three wraps should do the trick. Once that is done, chuck the threaded end of the nipple in the power drill. Now put a small amount of dishsoap, mixed with a couple of drops of water, on your stone. Making sure you match the original angle of the cone and with the drill on low, careful not to overheat your nipple, slowly turn the cone side of the nipple on your stone. Don't over do it, keep stopping every so often to use the cap as a guage to ensure a proper fit.

Once you are sure that you have a proper fit, be sure to clean the nipple thoroughly and that the vent is clear of debris. Remove masking tape, dry, oil and install on your gun. I use a little plumber's teflon tape to install mine. If you try this, make sure you don't cover the vent hole.

Next issue to address is to ensure that the hammer nose recess is large enough to accommodate the larger musket cap. If not, then you will need a dremel tool, set to slow speed, and a fine grain rotary stone. Slowly and carefully open up the recess to accommodate the head of the cap. Don't over heat the hammer nose or grind the wall of the recess too thin as this can cause the hammer to break and possibly spend sharpnel into the face and eyes of the shooter. Use of dishsoap and water will help to keep the heat of grinding down to a minimum.

I have done this conversion on a CVA Bobcat, T/C Hawkens and my GPR.

Like I said, it entails a little effort to get it right. :results:

 

[Plainsman1540552678]

Your problem could be that by blowing out with a plastic tube, you are adding moisture to your barrel. When you exhale, it contains a large amount of moisture in your breath. Is humidity in your area a problem? I have found that Triple 7 and Pyrodex don't seem to burn as well... :m2c: