Muzzleloader Confiscated at Mass. Airport

[Flint Striker]

Just short of 20 years ago was checking my declared revolver to leave Mpls./St. Paul for Alaska. The ammunition was in the cartridge belt loops and they weren’t going to allow it because “that’s loose ammunition”. After a 45 minute conversation/argument between the guy, his supervisor and me they decided “oh, I guess it’s okay”. I had told them to point out in the rule book (which they had) anything to support their argument.

They generally make you have ammo in a factory box or plastic box, and I’ve only had trouble checking any gun once. Ammo in a checked bag is no problem. One American Airlines staff hassled me about ten years, but it’s definitely legal to check a legal gun between two legal places you need to travel between. TSA has actually been pretty good, but they been very thorough lately with removing the guns and all the foam and inspecting everything. The guy here definitely goofed up with how he handled checking this muzzleloader, but he also isn’t the next John Dillinger.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

It’s been that way for well over 50 years. Duh.

in 1975... less than fifty years ago, I traveled to Germany on an airplane with a Camillus Barlow knife in my pocket. Nobody had any problem with it.

In 1973, (fifty years ago) I'm pretty sure that any muzzle-loader would have been allowed in checked baggage so long as it fit into the bag and was not loaded or packed with black powder. In fact, nobody was searching carry-ons in those days, so it would not have even come up for discussion.

Then the Arabs and Cubans (primarily) started hijacking airplanes. The rest is history.

Duh.

 

[springfield art]

Most of us on this forum are big 2A guys. And as SCOTUS found one can’t just name everywhere a sensitive place.
But even in my most ‘liberal’ view that the only gun control we need is hand on gun and gun handled safely, there are flight rules.
And failure to declare in this story is a red flag. If he was just ignorant of transport rules he wouldn’t keep it secret
TSA can now arrest you for a jar of peanut butter, he had to know they would flag a gun

It's amazing to see the numbers of guns confiscated each year at American airports; they publish the numbers periodically in the news. Most clowns say they "forgot it was in there", which is crazy.

 

[tenngun]

It's amazing to see the numbers of guns confiscated each year at American airports; they publish the numbers periodically in the news. Most clowns say they "forgot it was in there", which is crazy.

I haven’t flown since 2012, did offer some testimonies in court last year. In neither case did I ‘forget my gun’ or even my pocket knife that John Wick could kill an army with but serves me to open packages with.
I have a right under the constitution to bear arms, and in my state can legally walk about anywhere with open carry.
However I try to have a little common sense… ever now and then.
If you have such a dementia you can’t remember when you have a gun maybe you shouldn’t carry

 

[Flint Striker]

Just knowing that I’d lose a $400+ handgun if I forget it in a carry-on is lots of motivation to make sure I don’t forget. I don’t have an extra $400 to just flush away for that.

 

[Dark Skies]

Way back before 911, a friend flew to England for business and to give a talk involving Civil War bullets; he had some original lead musket balls, no cartridge or powder and did manage to get thru. But now, I bet even if you had foam or plastic fake minie balls, they'd' have a cow'.

Nah. I frequently buy up wads, balls, and flasks etc and pop them in my carry on with no issues.
However, a friend who went shooting in the US, had one single .22LR round that had snuck deep down in a pocket of some jeans stuffed in his checked baggage. It went through the US side without issue, but on the UK side he was pulled up for it and lost his firearm certificate over it, despite the fact that he had permission for that calibre listed.

 

[Coinneach]

YUP -- how dumb can one be --- all airlines have strict rules on transporting ANY firearm whether it be a BB gun or a machine gun. If it looks like a gun - it IS a gun to the TSA.

He's a 71 year old Man, try to understand that he's probably not as well versed in all legislation changes and anti gun hysteria that others are, he's probably still tuned into what was rather than what is in this era of political and social Insanity.

 

[DixieTexian]

He was in his 40's on 9/11. He should know well what he was doing if he still has his senses about him.

 

[hinamanra]

I carried on a flight a handful of times along with about 300 other Marines M4's and M9's flying to Iraq. I remember saying to my buddy that this is probably the safest this plane has ever been. The funny thing was here we were 300 M4's and I dont know how many side arms aboard and our bayonets had to be stowed below, they weren't allowed onboard.

 

[user 57640]

FAA is Federal !

Federal ATF definition of a firearm excludes antique or replica, identified by its ignition source being produced by flint or percusion cap.

However State Law will dictate if it is a disabling offence.

The FAA likely seized it unjustifiablly.

 

[user 57640]

It said it was in checked baggage, not carry on.
Even checked baggage goes through screening the same as carry on..
And he may have been thinking it was okay for a muzzle loader since they aren’t considered a firearm.. and do not require the NICS check when purchasing. (Trying to give home the benefit of doubt)
And since the stat police didn’t charge him, it was probably something along that line..
I’m sure if he would’ve had some powder in that bag as well, there would have been problems. You can’t take explosives on commercial planes..
I wonder what the conversation with the state patrol

Is that the same NRA that bans guns from it’s headquarters? They have their rules in their place same as airlines.

Private property can ban. siezeure is a separate isue.

 

[nick_1]

All you folks getting bent about your 2nd amendment rights being trampled on in this case come off sounding like whack job idiots. This is simply a case of common sense that the guy putting the muzzleloader in a duffel and not declaring it was severely lacking. Anyone flying with a firearm that doesn't call the airline first and find out what they need to do to have it go smoothly is an idiot.

 

[B P Arn]

Technically not a firearm !

Technically, it is a firearm.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I flew numerous times with a muzzleloader, always packed and checked it in a proper locked case. The only time things went without a hitch was when I flew with a Hilliard underhammer rifle which was not in the records. I explained what it was, let them take photos of it and went on my way. I've never experienced difficulty with security when declaring or picking up my firearms.

 

[alcessapiens]

Private property can ban. siezeure is a separate isue.

Airlines follow federal regulations, this guy must have been polite and reasonable or he’d have been charged and never gotten it back. Seizure is within the law or he could have just gone home and missed the flight. he’s just lucky the Massachusetts state police were reasonable.

 

[SPQR70AD]

This isn't a very sympathetic reply but...
There is a diference between the government encroaching on your rights, as opposed to a business imposing rules. A business that you don't have to patronize. The rules for transporting firearms and the airlines can decide what they consider a firearm, are available to anyone. He should have taken the time to read those rules. 3ven if those rules cole from the FAA, it still applies. There are rules for shipping guns, and buying guns. Ignoring the rules because you don't like them doesn't fix anything.

Carelessness or stupidity with our rights simply gives the other side more.ammo to encroach.

airlines pose as private businesses but are really run and funded by the feds. the reason there are tens of thousands of laws can be seen here with most posters who embrace all the laws and want more passed. they approve 100% of the encroaching police state. if there were real opposition to the many laws things would be a lot different

 

[SPQR70AD]

Except that it is. Semantic arguments are generally just ******** trying to sea lawyer a way around an idea you don’t like. States might not consider them firearms for purposes of background checks but TSA has different interpretations as do airlines. Hell, you can’t hardly travel with a compressed air match pistol unless you can prove the reservoir is empty. Not because it’s a firearm, but because you cannot check or carry on any compressed gases. Rules is rules, don’t like it, drive or buy your own plane. (Not that any of us can afford a plane, we’d long ago have used that money on more and better rifles.) Dumb guy doing dumb thing is not an abrogation of your 2nd amendment rights.

gee how come your place your rules didnt work for the bakeries who would not bake cakes for homosexuals? they had their lives ruined. the fire and brimstone law and order types are to dense to see all the laws they love are mostly enforced on themselves. gun laws a perfect example. people are allowed in big cities to run around some with fully automatic guns shooting many people but you have to go thru hoops to buy a bolt action rifle.

 

[nick_1]

Case in point...

 

[alcessapiens]

I flew numerous times with a muzzleloader, always packed and checked it in a proper locked case. The only time things went without a hitch was when I flew with a Hilliard underhammer rifle which was not in the records. I explained what it was, let them take photos of it and went on my way. I've never experienced difficulty with security when declaring or picking up my firearms.

Years ago I took my Rodda 4 bore rifle on a boar hunt (thick brush so long range precision wasn’t an issue). Because it’s a bpcr I had to ship the ammo ahead (hazmat of course) . While checking it in I had to open the case to show it was unloaded and had no ammo and I believe every airport police officer, Marshall, and security dropped by to see it, They moved me to a small room to open the case and the security guy asked if he could tell a couple of people to come have a look. It took so long they put me in a golf cart and zipped me off to the gate where they passed the case off to be hand loaded. Had a good time talking guns with them. Got a huge boar in such thick brush that by the time I got him out I was covered in mud, pig dung, blood, sweat and thought it’d have been better to just use the left barrel on myself and save the effort. For those interested in the rifles performance, I came on the boar at about 15yards ( never saw him until he snuffed a bit).No drama or charge, although he did look at me like I owed him money. Shot him squarely between his beady little eyes and the bullet went the length of him, blew his right hip out through his hide and bored a nice .93 hole through a 12” live oak and then into the hill behind it. I wish I’d had a shovel to go mining for it as I’d have liked to see it.

 

[sturmkatze]

Technically not a firearm !

Don’t be obtuse. These rules have been in place forever. I had to check my flintlock rifle when I flew to Oregon back in 1979. BFD. Anyone who is so stupid to try and claim they can “technically” get away with not checking and declaring a firearm deserves a jail spell. We all know these are guns.