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Muzzleloader made in Japan

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WV MZL HUNTER

45 Cal.
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
635
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A friend gave me a flintlock muzzleloader shotgun and I looked on line to try to find something about it. On the barrel it has Japan 3802 on one side and Ultra-Hi on the other. No other markings that I can see. It is a 12 gauge and it is a little rusted and the stock needs
finished. The touch hole is drilled into the barrel. It does not screw out like most other shotguns. I Just thought I would get some in put from the form.
 
I have heard of some Japo ML's with welded breeches, I would look it over very closely it is probably ok but it would be best to have it checked out by a ML smith.
 
tradegun1.jpg



Is it anything like this?

R
 
I have 3 Japanese made muzzleloaders. One I inherited and two I bought. The quality level varies dramatically between the three. Even two guns that are basically identical can be really different inside. Check the barrel over carefully. You may have to rebuild the inside of the lock as well. The frizzen on one of my guns was never hardened at all.

Many Klatch
 
I have pieces of a Ultra Hi kentucky rifle.
Cant find a lock to fit it.

Was told by folks that know, that in the 70s Sears, K-Mart and others sold the kits.
 
Thanks, I had Ed look at it at Mountain State Muzzleloader Supply in WV. They also said it was a 70's kit gun from Sears or K mart. I plan on cleaning it up and try it later this year.
Ed also checked the bore and it is a 69 cal.
:hatsoff:
 
I would also take the advice of tg. The Ultra Hi guns made in the middle to late 1960's had a spot weld on the breech plug. The plug was sweated in the barrel. Not safe to shoot. However, the later ones may have had improvements? Please do have the breech checked out.
 
This gun has one solid piece out to about 12 to 14 inches. I do not see a breech plug like my other muzzleloaders. I plan on setting it in a vice and trying it before I shoot it off hand.
Thanks again. :thumbsup:
 
I own a .45 cal Ultra-Hi thats a percusion rifle. It has a removeable breach plug that has never given me a lick of trouble. I own a number of muzzleloaders of much greater value then my old Ultra-Hi. Few shoot as well.
 
Hi man sorry it took so long to reply , but hey better late then not at all eh??..

This one is mine, Rough bore size is 65 cal, really smooth lock that gives good fire..

Its really not a bad little trade gun at all

When I origionally bought it, it was all coated in paint and ugly and rusty..You can eat off it now.

It shoots shot well, I have yet to ram a ball down the barell as the breech seems to only have 1 spot weld. I figure I am going to further weld it one of these days.

I have a picture of it all disassembeled in the photos section somewhere..

When disassembeling be shure to unscrew the screw under the ramrod and ram rod pipes.
 
Thanks for the information. My bore size is around 66 to 67 cal.? Is this a 16 gauge? I a had Ed at Mountain State Muzzleloading supply check it out. What size wads should I buy for over the powder and over the shot? Plus how much powder do you use in your gun? I plan on starting out very low and try to work up a good load just for squirrels. As far as getting back to the form no problem. I only have so much time myself and getting on this computer is not my bag. Shooting black powder is. I forgot to ask Ed what wads to buy when I stopped in. :thumbsup:
 
" Around 66 or 67 gauge" does not tell us much. 16 gauge is .662" in diameter. 17 gauge is .649" in diameter. That is a large difference- the thickness of notebook paper.

It is best to use a caliper to actually measure the bore of the barrel before ordering wads, or balls for it. With that actual measurement, there are any number of suppliers who can provide you with the correct sized wads and balls.
 
Ah-so!

YES! I am very familiar with the Ultra-Hi "fowler". I did "proof" test my gun "remotely" (as I do with EVERY muzzleloader that passes through my paws), before deciding to shoulder fire it. It worked VERY well with a .648 patched ball and 70gr 2F Black Powder (uses pinch of 4F for priming the pan). I lived about 1.5 miles from a great little black powder shop that was run by a friend of my father. There was always a pot of coffee on and I never got out of there in less than an hour--even if I was running late. Anyway, he had two of these Ultra-Hi guns--one of which he planned to keep for his own use and he let me buy the other (despite the fact that he really wanted to keep both of them. I had a good bit of clean-up to do to my gun to get it looking better and the lock seems super reliable. I've not had a "flash in the pan", unless it was my own stupidity.

I initially used approx. .650 diameter round balls cast by my friend using one of the simple Dixie round ball moulds. Quality was not the greatest, but they got me through the testing phase (though my friend was a qualified gunsmith and had already OK'ed the gun). I did quite a bit of shooting with them. Later on I would find some swaged .648 diameter balls that would really make the gun shoot. (All the time my load was 70gr 2F Goex.) If my memory isn't failing, I think that Warren Muzzleloading WAS the last place I had bought swaged .648 balls from...??? BTW, I have loaded it as high as 3 1/2 drams (about 96gr of 2F Goex) when loading heavy shot loads. The gun has never given me any reason to doubt if it's safe to use for live fire.

After 15 years of searching, I finally found a Lyman .648 mould that makes wonderful projectiles for my multi-purpose boomstick. I have measured the muzzle at .670, but the gun "seems" to be more like a 14 gauge (.69cal) that has been choked. Mine has a touch hole liner installed (whether that was part of a kit gun, factory gun, or afterthought--I have no way of knowing). My gun also has front and rear sights--which help greatly for poking those big holes in things. Both ball and shot are quite deadly at 30-40 yards, and on a "good day" I could put 5 PRB into a 2 1/2" circle at 30yds. I would trust it on deer sized game out to around 50 yds, maybe 60 if I was really hungry... and it has great performance with that big round ball. I've not taken a gobbler with shot yet, but many squirrel and rabbit have fallen victim. I imagine a "buck & ball" load would really flatten a white-tail, but I don't know of anyplace that load would be permitted (legally).

Currently, my Ultra-Hi has taken a favoured position over the fireplace mantel, as my health has not been so good over the past few years, but I know it will be ready whenever my miracle occurs.

PLEASE NOTE: Do NOT take my experiences as assurance that your gun is safe to fire. You really need to have a good gunsmith look it over and do some "remote" test firing for yourself just for peace of mind

I have also since learned that there was a "companion" flintlock pistol available as a kit that has the same bore dimensions and would probably be quite a handful of gun. Just seeing that large bore pointed at you at close range would require a change of the boxers...

Good luck on your Ultra-Hi and if I can be of assistance, please send me a PT and we'll try to work it out.

Regards,
WV_Hillbilly
 
I had Ed and Scott Cain at Mountain State Muzzleloader Supply check size of the bore of this gun and he did say that it was a 69 cal. but at the muzzle it measured 67. He looked down the bore and it looked as if it has not ever been shot. The outside is rusted some but should clean up ok. I have several muzzleloaders but none like this one. I am not a builder just a shooter of muzzleloaders for 35 years or so. But I love the sport and I am still learning more everyday from a lot of form readers. This gun is a flintlock and it does not look like the quality of most muzzleloaders on the market today. So I plan on cleaning it up and learning as much as I can before I shoot it. Thanks.
 
MAN what good information! This is just the information that I am looking for. I may ask some more questions later. Good Luck and God bless. :thumbsup:
 
Biily: A measurement in 2 digits does not tell you enough of value to let you pick the right ball and patch combination. Please have someone measure the bore with calipers and give you at least a 3 digit measurement! It may turn out to be " .670" but at least you will know exactly what the bore measures to the thousandth of an inch. I suspect that one measurment is of the land to land dimension, and the other is a measurement of the grooves dimensions. A lot of those foreign made rifles were rifled with shallow rifling. A .648" ball with a good .015-.020" patch will work well in that barrel.
 
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