muzzleloader origin?

[doolanderson]

Hi, I've recently received this gun from great grandparents and am after some info on it. Im after an age on the gun as if its pre 1900's i don't need it registered (I'm in melbourne australia). Can you also help with the proof marks and origin. My research on the gun shows it has the birmingham proof mark of the crown above the bp and the crown above the crossed sceptres also birmingham. There is a number 14 and a separate capital A I'm unsure what this means. On top between the barrels it says W RICHARDS LONDON.
I know its not a Westley Richards but would it be a W Richards gun? the W Richards website doesn't have too much info on it.
W.Richards opened a store in melbourne in 1854 could it have possibly come from there?
Any help would be great, thanks.

 

[doolanderson]

 

[doolanderson]

 

[doolanderson]

 

[doolanderson]

 

[TFoley]

Sir - according to - http://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articles/514-2

Your lovely old gun was proofed sometime between 1875 and 1887.

It is in desperate need of some TLC.

It is a a fairly rare 14 gauge/bore gun - have a look at this Youtube video of one dating from 1850 to see the extreme similarity -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG80RWRxNpo

Please don't shoot it.

tac

 

[doolanderson]

Thanks, I'm not planing on firing it, it's on my wall in the study.
But does anyone know if its Belgium made or English? The proof marks say English but Belgium guns were apparently sent to Birmingham to proof, is this true?

 

[TFoley]

Thanks, I'm not planing on firing it, it's on my wall in the study.
But does anyone know if its Belgium made or English? The proof marks say English but Belgium guns were apparently sent to Birmingham to proof, is this true?

No, it is not true. The Prince Bishop of Liége issued an ordinance 29 August 1672, requiring firearms made in Liége to beat the stamp of the Perron, which was then, and still is found on every Belgian-made firearm except for revolvers, which ceased to bear the Perron in 1853.

This symbol looks just like the famous Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square in London, England.

However, the first ACTUAL proof house was set up on 18 May 1810, in accordance with the French Proof Laws [Belgium at that time was not an independent nation].

So in answer to your query - the Belgian Proof House in Liége is at least 24 years older than the British Proof Houses in London and Birmingham and Dublin.

The proof marks on YOUR gun are indisputably those of Birmingham and were applied during the period covered by the dates I have already posted. Birmingham had enough of its own gunmakers churning out barrels by the hundred thousandto not need the artifice of the Belgians to muscle in on their business.

Unless, of course, they are fakes and the gun itself is a Belgian-made fake in its entirety.

However, let's just remind ourselves that you provided the name of an Australian dealer from whom this English-made gun was probably bought in the middle of the 19th century.

The likelihood of this being a frawk is extremely slim.

tac

 

[FredBoulton]

I think that your gun was make by W Richards of Liverpool. Richards gun shop was still active into the 1950s. Most locals seemed to believe that it was the Liverpool branch of Westley Richards (no connection!) and they seemed to do little to discourage this belief.
Fred

 

[Matt85]

Im after an age on the gun as if its pre 1900's i don't need it registered

in the advent that the nazis that rule your country decide to question the incredibly old shotgun on your wall. you can simply tell them "its pre 1900's", do you think they would know the difference?

-matt