Muzzleloader shooting distance

[Tanker]

I was watching a hunting show. The guy was using a Hawken rifle with Minie balls. Never said the caliber but guessing about a 54 cal. Can't tell the make but it looks just like my pedersoli. Mine is flint his was percussion. During the show he said I need to get the Moose within 150yds to shoot it. That's seems pretty far to me. So I wonder would it be possible to shoot that rifle that far and still have enough energy to kill a Moose. What everyone thought on this? It very well could be possible. I shoot mine a max at 100 yds but I am going for whitetail with round balls.

 

[deerstalkert]

you may be able to kill him with a 150 yard shot, then before he knows it he can go a mile or more, wander into the center of the nastiest bog imaginable and turn a big job of recovery into a heartbreaking nightmare.
that said moose are the easiest of the large game to kill.
my 80 year old sister killed hers with the old .30 cal unmentionable known as the 30-30.

 

[Dale Lilly]

I think he was 'blowing smoke'. I would never shoot any animal at that range with my muzzle loaders.. My longest kill shot was probably 40 yards or a bit less. If you can hit a cottage cheese lid at 150 yards [consistently] with open sights and under hunting conditions ... well, then, maybe. Polecat

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

If you haven't tried it or seen it done I guess it's all conjecture.

I had read many times on the net and had several people tell me buffalo can't be taken cleanly with a 50 cal muzzleloader. None of whom had tried it. I now have and know it can be done.

On the note of the pedersoli hawken, depending on the model it may have been a 50 cal fast twist which can churn out some fast bullets.

 

[Tanker]

Thanks for the replies. I have only ever shot round balls and don't know if I would ever shoot at something past 100 yds. I don't have the confidence in my accuracy past that distance to make a clean kill. I just had trouble believing in a hunting situation wind, brush, and that mosquitoes that seems to always be buzzing in my ear to make clean 150yd shot. But that is just me I'm sure there are plenty of people capable of the shot. At least I know it's possible. Is a minie ball better in this situation? With me always shooting round balls and knowing nothing of minie balls I'm wondering if I am missing out on something. My Hawken has a 1/48 twist so I'm guessing I may be able to shoot them.

 

[Eterry]

Most people don't have confidence in iron sights and what they can do. I'm basing that on being issued an iron sighted rifle for over 2 decades and watching poor shots and amazed shooters at the Department range.

That said, I've never hunted a moose, but my best friend's brother takes one every year in Alaska. He told me the kill zone is about the size of a pillow, which is HUGE compared to a Texas Deer.

According to Lyman, A 54 with their 410 grain minie can be pushed to 1580 fps, which is about 2300 Ft/Lbs at the muzzle. At 150 yards it still has about 1050 Ft/Lbs. It has a mid range trajectory of 6 inches, so at 75 yards it hits 6 inches high. Looking at another way it falls about a foot if dead on at 50 yards.

Soooo...I definitely think if he has PRACTICED at that range and knows his rifle its a doable shot, under good conditions. The moose would have to be stationary, full broadside, little or no wind before I would try it, but if you read of hunters before scopes became prevalent you'll see long shots with iron sights weren't uncommon. But they knew nothing else.

 

[Don Steele]

To cleanly kill a Moose at 150 yds....the rifle is not the limiting factor. There are a LOT of limiting factors that make such an attempt an incredibly poor choice but the rifle/load isn't one of them.

 

[tenngun]

Lots of energy in that round. However as said that a lot of iffies. Old timers did take shots like that, myself I shoot ball and and a hundred yards would be my max.
Some of the old Jaegars in early eighteenth century had folding sites for about three hundred yards. Ballisticlly a .54 minie should do better then a .62 ball.
still, I wouldn’t try it.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Lots to consider and I agree with most of the others who suggest it can be done, but......Keep in mind that moose are large animals and as such, they have a much larger kill area in the heart/lung region than the typical whitetail deer. I've not killed one, but I've also heard that moose are reasonably easy to kill if hit properly. I wouldn't even consider it anymore because my eyes aren't what they once were and too much would be left to chance, but when I was a younger man and often practiced at 100 yards (or occasionally more), I don't think it would have been as ridiculous to attempt a 150 yard shot at a standing, broadside moose with a heavy load and either a large roundball (.54 or .58) or a heavier bullet that patterned consistently from my rifle. All of that said, keep in mind that it was a TV show and it was made for entertainment purposes more than for educational purposes, so take what people say on the hunting shows with a grain of salt.

 

[deermanok]

I shot a deer at about 90 yards with iron sights. 110 grains of 2f Goex and a 275 grain TC maxi hunter bullet.
I felt good about taking the shot at the time but I personally wouldn't shoot much farther.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I shot a deer at about 90 yards with iron sights. 110 grains of 2f Goex and a 275 grain TC maxi hunter bullet.
I felt good about taking the shot at the time but I personally wouldn't shoot much farther.

I once shot a deer at an honest 125-127 yards with a .50 Pedersoli Blue Ridge flintlock rifle. Hit it in the front shoulder and eventually tracked it down and killed it the following day after hours and hours of tracking and hours of suffering on the part of the deer. I was much younger and occasionally practiced at those ranges, but even then it was a silly shot that I shouldn't have taken and I'd never take that shot today. Just because people have surely shot at and killed big game animals with sidelock muzzleloaders at those ranges doesn't make it ethical to do so, particularly given that we all have different abilities and we all practice to varying degrees. I'd put the percentage of guys that I'd trust with shots at big game from those ranges with a muzzleloader (not the unmentionables) at about 1% of the hunting population and TV hunting shows should never promote that sort of silliness when they recognize that the average viewer may not be a serious hunter or practice routinely at those ranges.

 

[FishDFly]

You can see or hear anything imaginable on a hunting show.

 

[Boatncamp]

Last night on the History Channel, they showed someone duplicating the alleged Timothy Murphy shot at Saratoga. The marksman used a flintlock long rifle (don't remember if they said the caliber) and hit a 55 gallon oil drum at 330 yards. It took him a couple of shots to dial it in but he did it!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I was watching a hunting show. The guy was using a Hawken rifle with Minie balls. Never said the caliber but guessing about a 54 cal. ..., During the show he said I need to get the Moose within 150yds to shoot it. ...., I shoot mine a max at 100 yds but I am going for whitetail with round balls.

Sure it's quite possible. But as others have said, probably blowing smoke.
I can and have successfully reached out 200 yards with my .54 flintlock with a 38" barrel... ON STEEL. I'd not take that shot on an animal, unless it was a starvation situation.

James Forsyth, author of The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles (1867) and hunted a LOT of dangerous game in India, wrote this ....,

“200 yards may be taken as the very outside limit at which it is ever advisable to fire at ordinary game ; not because the rifle may not be accurate enough to ensure frequent hitting at much greater distances, but because the probability of killing at such ranges is very small indeed ; and humanity, not to say sportsmanlike feeling, demand that we shall not knowingly run so strong a chance of wounding, and consigning to a miserable and lingering death, the animals over which we have dominion,...,
..., it is only on the open plain that such long shots even as this will be likely to present themselves. In the jungle, at least one-half are under 50 yards, three-fourths under 75, and all, with scarcely an exception are under 100 ; that is to say, these are the distances at which animals are usually killed in jungle shooting, and I imagine that the case is very much the same in other forest countries..,
..., If any one thinks that the general run of his successful shots are at longer distances than these, let him put them to the crucial test of measuring ; and, if still unconvinced, all I can say is that his experience differs from my own and that of most shots of my acquaintance. One hundred and fifty yards, then, may be taken as the distance up to which great accuracy of shooting is to be sought for in the sporting rifle ;..., "

So Forsyth pretty much hit the mark more than 150 years ago when he penned this. He used very large bore, round ball rifles even though conical minnie ball rifles were available to him and he did try them, and Forsyth is credited with the invention of Forsyth Rifling. He himself had a standard of accuracy so that he could shoot to 200 yards on large game, BUT..., his having the ability was one thing yet..., he notes that 150 yards is the max range, BUT he has always (like us) shot at 100 yards, and most often at 75 yards or less.



LD

 

[LME]

Sure it's quite possible. But as others have said, probably blowing smoke.
I can and have successfully reached out 200 yards with my .54 flintlock with a 38" barrel... ON STEEL. I'd not take that shot on an animal, unless it was a starvation situation.

James Forsyth, author of The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles (1867) and hunted a LOT of dangerous game in India, wrote this ....,

“200 yards may be taken as the very outside limit at which it is ever advisable to fire at ordinary game ; not because the rifle may not be accurate enough to ensure frequent hitting at much greater distances, but because the probability of killing at such ranges is very small indeed ; and humanity, not to say sportsmanlike feeling, demand that we shall not knowingly run so strong a chance of wounding, and consigning to a miserable and lingering death, the animals over which we have dominion,...,
..., it is only on the open plain that such long shots even as this will be likely to present themselves. In the jungle, at least one-half are under 50 yards, three-fourths under 75, and all, with scarcely an exception are under 100 ; that is to say, these are the distances at which animals are usually killed in jungle shooting, and I imagine that the case is very much the same in other forest countries..,
..., If any one thinks that the general run of his successful shots are at longer distances than these, let him put them to the crucial test of measuring ; and, if still unconvinced, all I can say is that his experience differs from my own and that of most shots of my acquaintance. One hundred and fifty yards, then, may be taken as the distance up to which great accuracy of shooting is to be sought for in the sporting rifle ;..., "

So Forsyth pretty much hit the mark more than 150 years ago when he penned this. He used very large bore, round ball rifles even though conical minnie ball rifles were available to him and he did try them, and Forsyth is credited with the invention of Forsyth Rifling. He himself had a standard of accuracy so that he could shoot to 200 yards on large game, BUT..., his having the ability was one thing yet..., he notes that 150 yards is the max range, BUT he has always (like us) shot at 100 yards, and most often at 75 yards or less.



LD

I agree with ,"James Forsyth" but I would also add that at 200 yards with my ML rifle .54 Cal. I can shoot at my target and put the gun down before I hear the round hit the target. The time lapse is to long to take a chance on a animal. I could shoot and have aimed perfect as humanly possible and miss due to the animal taking a step the second I fired the rifle. Now I run the risk of a injured animal that I may not be able to recover.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I agree with ,"James Forsyth" but I would also add that at 200 yards with my ML rifle .54 Cal. I can shoot at my target and put the gun down before I hear the round hit the target. The time lapse is to long to take a chance on a animal. I could shoot and have aimed perfect as humanly possible and miss due to the animal taking a step the second I fired the rifle. Now I run the risk of a injured animal that I may not be able to recover.

Which was one of the things I thought odd about his personal standard that all of his really big bore rifles be sighted and use loads that he could hit at 200 yards, as well as much shorter distances..., so he really pushed the load very high to get a very flat trajectory from 8 bore and 4 bore rifles. I think he was more of a recoil-junkie, since he then turns around and writes about how close all his shots have been.

LD

 

[Eterry]

There are many variables in this situation. There's no way anyone should attempt a 150 yard shot off hand, a rest of some sort is imperative.
And the shot has to "Feel" right. Shooting competition I learned if the shot doesn't Feel right, the chance of a miss greatly increases.

Again, the kill zone on a moose is large, probably bigger than an elk. So you shouldn't have to "thread a needle". But if conditions weren't perfect I'd certainly let him walk.

But you could say the same thing about a 50 yard shot...poor conditions lead to a poor outcome.

I dare to even address the fact it's a hunting show. They may be entertaining, but many have little to do with reality.

I'm mainly talking about the ability of a muzzleloading rifle and it's owner.

 

[Eterry]

Which was one of the things I thought odd about his personal standard that all of his really big bore rifles be sighted and use loads that he could hit at 200 yards, as well as much shorter distances..., so he really pushed the load very high to get a very flat trajectory from 8 bore and 4 bore rifles. I think he was more of a recoil-junkie, since he then turns around and writes about how close all his shots have been.

LD

Many fine English rifles had a standing rear sight with folding leaves for distances past 100 yards.
I've seen and handled many Express rifles with folding rear sights up to 500 yards.... that's much too far for me and most hunters, but they were there.

 

[52Bore]

54 Hawken
120gr charge is nearly 2000fps
225gr RB with BC 0.08
At 150yds the ball is traveling at 1000fps with 500ft-lbs. energy.
I believe I’ve read that many original Hawken’s were sighted in at 130yds.
Many of us would not attempt so such an animal, but I believe if placed in the lungs - it would kill.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

The OP never mentioned round balls. And at that is the OP sure they were minie balls? If they were big lead hunting conicals 150 yards is not unrealistic at all.