I don't know if this has been posted before. I was on a gunblog website and a felon was arrested for owning a muzzleloader. Apparently he brought the gun to his shoulder and aimed thru the scope at traffic and was arrested. When he appealed it the supreme court, I would assume the WY Supreme Court, they ruled that a muzzleloader is a firearm. The local sherrif told him even though he was a felon it was legal to own a muzzleloader. Now he's a felon in possesion of a firearm a big no-no.The Wy Dept. of Game and Fish were surprised by this ruling since they know there are felons who own them to hunt with and now they are in violation of the law. I guess it proves to show if you have a firearm legality question it's best to ask somebody other than law enforcement.
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Muzzleloaders classified as firearm wyoming
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CrackStock
69 Cal.
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Personally, I think that they erred with the charges. There are other potential charges that could have been used. I do see this as a dangerous precedent -- in Wyoming.
We should try to address this in our various states by watching our legislators and letting them know that our MLs are restricted as much as they need to be already.
I understand what you are saying about law enforcement officers and free legal advice. It is often worth about what you pay for it. If you want better -- hire an attorney so that you can sue him when he is wrong. Police go with the generally accepted practice that they have seen or been taught in such matters. Someone went way out on a limb with this particular case -- beyond the norm for some reason. I am sure that there is an agenda at work here.
CS
We should try to address this in our various states by watching our legislators and letting them know that our MLs are restricted as much as they need to be already.
I understand what you are saying about law enforcement officers and free legal advice. It is often worth about what you pay for it. If you want better -- hire an attorney so that you can sue him when he is wrong. Police go with the generally accepted practice that they have seen or been taught in such matters. Someone went way out on a limb with this particular case -- beyond the norm for some reason. I am sure that there is an agenda at work here.
CS
Article 1. Weapons Offenses, Wyoming Laws
Any person who has previously pleaded guilty to or been convicted of committiing or attempting to commit a violent feloney or a felony under W.S. 6-5-204(b) and has been pardoned and who uses or knowingly possesses ANY FIREARM is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than three(3) years, a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000.00), or both.(Laws 1982.ch.75 & 3; 1983. ch 171, 1:1993, ch. 64. & 1.)
No we don't allow felones to carry any type of weapon. Yes under Wyoming Law M/L are weapons. I suspect they are in most states. You do not need to do paper work to own or buy one, you can mail it transport it what ever. You can carry a loaded M/L or BP handgun in public carry one loaded and concealed with out a permit in your car or truck.
If you carry one concealed up on your person you need a Concealed carry permit.
Under WWyoming W.S> 6-1-104 Deadly Weapons
Means but not limited to a firearm or explosive or incendiary material. motorized vehicle, an animal or other device, insturment, material or substance , which in the manner it is used or is intended to be used is reasonably capable of producing death or serious bodily injury.
Yes the Law is very clear on this issue. This guy is working the system. You will note if you try to use your horse to stomp some one or your Bear Dog for human attack same problem.
Any person who has previously pleaded guilty to or been convicted of committiing or attempting to commit a violent feloney or a felony under W.S. 6-5-204(b) and has been pardoned and who uses or knowingly possesses ANY FIREARM is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than three(3) years, a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000.00), or both.(Laws 1982.ch.75 & 3; 1983. ch 171, 1:1993, ch. 64. & 1.)
No we don't allow felones to carry any type of weapon. Yes under Wyoming Law M/L are weapons. I suspect they are in most states. You do not need to do paper work to own or buy one, you can mail it transport it what ever. You can carry a loaded M/L or BP handgun in public carry one loaded and concealed with out a permit in your car or truck.
If you carry one concealed up on your person you need a Concealed carry permit.
Under WWyoming W.S> 6-1-104 Deadly Weapons
Means but not limited to a firearm or explosive or incendiary material. motorized vehicle, an animal or other device, insturment, material or substance , which in the manner it is used or is intended to be used is reasonably capable of producing death or serious bodily injury.
Yes the Law is very clear on this issue. This guy is working the system. You will note if you try to use your horse to stomp some one or your Bear Dog for human attack same problem.
To the best of my knowledge, the only place a muzzleloader isn't considered a firearms is to the ATF in regards to registration, shipping and NICS checks, the same as an antique gun. To the law and the courts, they are as much a firearm as any other gun.
MikeChapin
58 Cal.
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The judge was right in this case. He was ruling on state law as it is written. Redwing posted the law and it is rather obvious he ruled as the law was written and not what he wanted it to be as opposed to what some judges do.
After this incident some lawmakers were talking about amending the law to all felons to have muzzleloaders but I have heard nothing about it since.
After this incident some lawmakers were talking about amending the law to all felons to have muzzleloaders but I have heard nothing about it since.
Bountyhunter
50 Cal.
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I just read on another forum that there is a challenge to that situation going on up there. It is still in court and the final decisions are not made. If I remember correctly--the county or state sued the ATF!!!!! and are contesting the definition. I have not seen a decision on it yet.
Plink said:
I believe you are correct. I can't imageint that anyone actually thinks that there were no "firearms" until the cartridge was invented. :grin:
I don't see any hidden agenda here except for the felon trying to skate the law. If he shot and killed one of your family would you go to court and tell the judge he was furthering a hidden agenda? The fact he was pointing the rifle towards traffic speaks for itself as to why the law covers all firearms. Roundball or not it still kills. I would be asking just what training the Wy. hunting and fishing people have. Any rifle or pistol that is capable of killing a wild animal in the woods should have raised some concern when in the hands of known felon. :nono:
There isn't any law in New Hamshire about Felons owning B/P guns. I know of one local dealer that will sell them to felons.
No backbround check is required to buy one so no problem as far as he is concerned.
Personly I dissagree with him, but I don't want to complain to the state, because of course they will enact a law requiring a background check on them.
No backbround check is required to buy one so no problem as far as he is concerned.
Personly I dissagree with him, but I don't want to complain to the state, because of course they will enact a law requiring a background check on them.
rudy parnell
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Forty years ago in North Carolina teenage boys bought muzzleloading pistols and carried them...but they didn't carry them to school. The law required you to be 21 to own and carry a pistol. It has also been a well know practice that convicted felons could own and hunt with muzzleloaders. The law and the enforcement of law has changed dramatically. I just found out that you are suppose to stay inside your vehicle if you are stopped by a law enforcement officer. In my day you were told to meet the officer half-way as a matter of courtesy.
State laws prohibit weapons in the work place and on state property, but will currently allow a Bow in a locked vehicle but not a firearm...[don't know if that means a muzzleloader but I am sure it does] I notice that they never conduct a search....wonder if that's on the horizon?
State laws prohibit weapons in the work place and on state property, but will currently allow a Bow in a locked vehicle but not a firearm...[don't know if that means a muzzleloader but I am sure it does] I notice that they never conduct a search....wonder if that's on the horizon?
Don't get this confused. The BATF is being sued by the Gov. of Wyoming. The State of Wyoming says the BATF should not control Gun Laws inside Wyoming. This stems from an argument over Concealed Carry Laws between the state and the BATF.
The BATF says if Wyoming will not follow Federal Rules that they will disallow Wyoming Concealed Carry Permits. Wyoming says this is a States Rights Issue.
This all sounds like talk from April 1861. Hope no one fires on Ft. Laraime.
The BATF says if Wyoming will not follow Federal Rules that they will disallow Wyoming Concealed Carry Permits. Wyoming says this is a States Rights Issue.
This all sounds like talk from April 1861. Hope no one fires on Ft. Laraime.
Here in W.V. they do not check when selling b/p rifles or pistols. Over in Ohio when we bought black powder we had to show ID and sign for the can of Goex. Don't know if that is Ohio state law or just store policy, here in W.V. I have never had to show ID for any purchase of powder or anything else pertaining to muzzleloading.
walruskid1
54 Cal.
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must have been a store policy, never been carded for bp anywhere around me. (cleveland)
I am not sure, but I think the point the person who brought up the subject in the article was saying was, although it is illegal to posess a firearm if someone is a convicted felon he can purchase the muzzleloader without filling out any forms for a background check. Even though it's illegal for him to do so there are no laws saying forms have to be filled out to make sure a convicted felon wouldn't be able to get a muzzleloader. From what I understand he asked the sherrif if he could own one before he bought it and the sherrif thought since it wasn't classified as a firearm, it would be ok to do so.
It is a state by stae issue as to whether a ML is a weapon or firearm in regards to felons and their possesion of such, most states follow the federal guidelines some do not so it is wise for felon to do some serious research on the laws of their state, at one time a "relief of disability for the use of firearms " could be petitioned by a felon from the ATF and most states would honour it if granted, with the anti gun fever in the last decade this program may now be defunct.
Black Powder
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I agree felons should not own guns, but every time something like this happens we get the anti gunners asking for more gun laws. And that we don't need. Just my opion.
B. P.
B. P.
I don't think Violent felons should own guns, but with some of the laws they have now days a person can become a felon for things that no violence was involved in. There are some cases where it just isn't really appropriate though as far as i'm concerned.
CrackStock
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Don't get me wrong, I have hunted felons for over 2 decades and prosecuted them in countless cases. I have no love for them. My interest is in prosecuting them without bringing undue control over MLs. It is hard enough to comply with all of the :bull: regs as things are without an superfluous layer of needless regs.
The legal definition of firearms in most states uses the federal standard of cartridge guns.
However, MLs are generally considered dangerous weapons in many situations.
This is why I strongly believe that there is an agenda being pushed here. There are many laws that could have been charged here.
CS
The legal definition of firearms in most states uses the federal standard of cartridge guns.
However, MLs are generally considered dangerous weapons in many situations.
This is why I strongly believe that there is an agenda being pushed here. There are many laws that could have been charged here.
CS
I don't want to beat this thing to death. The problem here in part is the defference in Eastern and Western problems. And all the other facts about this issue too broad to cover without boring everyone. We have much better gun laws than any eastern state because we watch it.
One of the issues here on this subject is Big Game Permits. It has been found thru a study in Utah that felons are buying valuable permits and hunting with M/Ls as they require no BG checks.
They should not be allowed to hunt as firearms are probibited to them. Felons are using this loop hole to buy permits that they should not have. They {Felons} are pushing this in all the western states to get around the law. They are using M/Ls for an end run around the law. So before some of you bleeding hearts faint over the poor felons. I will say once more there is a lot more to this.
One of the issues here on this subject is Big Game Permits. It has been found thru a study in Utah that felons are buying valuable permits and hunting with M/Ls as they require no BG checks.
They should not be allowed to hunt as firearms are probibited to them. Felons are using this loop hole to buy permits that they should not have. They {Felons} are pushing this in all the western states to get around the law. They are using M/Ls for an end run around the law. So before some of you bleeding hearts faint over the poor felons. I will say once more there is a lot more to this.
