Muzzleloading myth busting

[Birddog1911]

As I commented on his YT page. There is a difference between the pressure generated with his short loading of a ball, and a ball seated an inch or two from the breach. It's elementary.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Antiques and reproductions aside...I would think that you could fill the whole barrel with black powder and be fine. It just doesn't build enough pressure to hurt anything. To my understanding, black powder reaches a certain pressure plateau and builds no more. Unlike smokeless powder. I get a kick out of his videos and has good instructions on how to make your own.

The problem with that thinking is
A) not all barrels are thick, rifle barrels
B) the powder has mass and a can of black powder is often 16 ounces of the stuff.

So say the barrel will hold a full can of powder. Most Bess, which are thinner walled than a rifle, will hold pretty much a full can of powder....( at least I think they did when we checked on this 30 years ago..., I may have to double check)

When you set that off, lets say you only actually burned two ounces, or 876 grains of powder..., that 876 grains of burning powder then pushes on 14 ounces of unburned powder as it heads towards the muzzle.

TRUE as the action happens, as the mass moves forward the space between the mass and the breech plug is enlarged which subtracts from the pressure as the powder is burning and increasing the pressure.....

BUT that's the same as putting 876 grains of powder down the barrel followed by a wad and 14 musket balls. Do you think the barrel will contain that pressure, because the burning powder and the pressure from that will extend beyond the thicker part of the barrel....

Which is why we never actually tried this in a musket barrel as nobody wanted to replace his Bess barrel...IF it failed....

LD

 

[dylan84]

The problem with that thinking is
A) not all barrels are thick, rifle barrels
B) the powder has mass and a can of black powder is often 16 ounces of the stuff.

So say the barrel will hold a full can of powder. Most Bess, which are thinner walled than a rifle, will hold pretty much a full can of powder....( at least I think they did when we checked on this 30 years ago..., I may have to double check)

When you set that off, lets say you only actually burned two ounces, or 876 grains of powder..., that 876 grains of burning powder then pushes on 14 ounces of unburned powder as it heads towards the muzzle.

TRUE as the action happens, as the mass moves forward the space between the mass and the breech plug is enlarged which subtracts from the pressure as the powder is burning and increasing the pressure.....

BUT that's the same as putting 876 grains of powder down the barrel followed by a wad and 14 musket balls. Do you think the barrel will contain that pressure, because the burning powder and the pressure from that will extend beyond the thicker part of the barrel....

Which is why we never actually tried this in a musket barrel as nobody wanted to replace his Bess barrel...IF it failed....

LD

I will assure you that if I ever acquire a Bess I will not be "proof" testing it or any others! haha

 

[Pork Chop]

I was thinking that the load was a light load as well.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Anyone have an old Dixie catalog?
It sows them putting 2 balls in a barrel full of BP and it did not blow up.

 

[sturmkatze]

The one that gets me is the so called "fuse" effect and banking the prime away from the touch hole to prevent this. The extensive testing by Larry Pletch dispelled this myth. I use white lightning liners in all my rifles and fowlers, with the main charge about 1/16" away from the pan this makes for a very short fuse.

Using little priming powder and banking it away has worked for me. I will continue with that.

 

[Robby]

I like lore, it gives a certain mystique to what we do.
Robby

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Push away from the key board and go out and shoot.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

I have watched a few of his videos, seems to be be very knowledgeable and shows his work ; but I imagine he steps on a lot of toes along the way. What say you ?

I think he's a danger to the sport!

 

[Tenmile]

I always use a vent pick and like Sturmkatze said, little priming banked away from the vent. It doesn’t go klatch boom, just crack.

 

[Melchi577]

I think the therory comes from modern gun bursting due to mud,dirt or some other obstruction in the barrel? Smokeless powder produces high CUPS and could blow a barrel apart! Black powderis a different animal.

it goes back a long way I seen 17th century authors stating it was a problem when training soldiers in the English civil war

 

[RUDY MR]

In a barrel it would be ok but add a bullet it become a obtruction so something got to give

 

[LME]

it goes back a long way I seen 17th century authors stating it was a problem when training soldiers in the English civil war

I have seen some terrible things in my life caused by rifles but have yet to see or hear of a black powder rifle blowing up? Not to mention any names but I know a few fellows that put way to much powder in a rifle and it didn't burst?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I have seen some terrible things in my life caused by rifles but have yet to see or hear of a black powder rifle blowing up? Not to mention any names but I know a few fellows that put way to much powder in a rifle and it didn't burst?

I blew one up back in the 80's.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

I've seen guns blow up that were short started. It's not pretty!

it goes back a long way I seen 17th century authors stating it was a problem when training soldiers in the English civil

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The guy is an *****. He dispenses "one size fits all" maxims without considering some of the guns sold over the past 50 years. Take notice when he primed the gun, he held the muzzle down and never tilted the gun back up to have the bulk of the powder go back down the barrel to the breech.. We also don't know how much powder. This guy has obviously never been at the range when somebody split or ringed a barrel. (I have seen a barrel split just an inch or two behind the front sight. I have also see a twist barrel start to unravel in another incident) He totally ignored the variables such as the cheap twist barrels on many of the cheap smooth bores sold by Dixie in the 1960's. Or the 13/16 ATF 50 caliber barrels that were on the market in the 1970's. Or the home made barrels concocted by garage gun smiths. We also don't know how big his touch hole was to let out excess pressure.

As for the grades of granules, he is also smoking dope. No one ever said there is a problem using coarser powder in a barrel. The problem is using finer grain powder, particularly the poorer quality guns sold here 50 years ago. If I still had it I would send him that 28 ga twist shotgun that Dixie sold in the 1960's. the one with the stove pipe thickness barrel walls. or maybe the 68 caliber Century Arms guns sold in the 1970's. He is trying to pass off this ridiculous joke as being universal for all muzzle loaders, yet he sticks to a modern quality steel gun and barrel. Maybe he should interview the folks at the English proof houses for whom, even some American made guns have exploded. Salute guns in Germany must be proof tested every five years. Even those heavy barreled guns sometimes start to swell and deform. They might pass testing the first two or three times and fail the next. (The German lab shoots the gun with specified loads measuring the barrels exterior and interior before and after. for changes and there better not be any changes.)

 

[LME]

Check this out!
muzzleloader overload testing (tis221)

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

I've seen guns blow up that were short started. It's not pretty!

I saw a beautiful Netting fowler blow up last summer. The barrel I believe was nuclear grade hydraulic tubing. Years ago I watched an inch and a quarter across the flats barrel bulge after firing a short started ball. His stupid display was not only misleading, it was irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[dylan84]

The guy is an *****. He dispenses "one size fits all" maxims without considering some of the guns sold over the past 50 years. Take notice when he primed the gun, he held the muzzle down and never tilted the gun back up to have the bulk of the powder go back down the barrel to the breech.. We also don't know how much powder. This guy has obviously never been at the range when somebody split or ringed a barrel. (I have seen a barrel split just an inch or two behind the front sight. I have also see a twist barrel start to unravel in another incident) He totally ignored the variables such as the cheap twist barrels on many of the cheap smooth bores sold by Dixie in the 1960's. Or the 13/16 ATF 50 caliber barrels that were on the market in the 1970's. Or the home made barrels concocted by garage gun smiths. We also don't know how big his touch hole was to let out excess pressure.

As for the grades of granules, he is also smoking dope. No one ever said there is a problem using coarser powder in a barrel. The problem is using finer grain powder, particularly the poorer quality guns sold here 50 years ago. If I still had it I would send him that 28 ga twist shotgun that Dixie sold in the 1960's. the one with the stove pipe thickness barrel walls. or maybe the 68 caliber Century Arms guns sold in the 1970's. He is trying to pass off this ridiculous joke as being universal for all muzzle loaders, yet he sticks to a modern quality steel gun and barrel. Maybe he should interview the folks at the English proof houses for whom, even some American made guns have exploded. Salute guns in Germany must be proof tested every five years. Even those heavy barreled guns sometimes start to swell and deform. They might pass testing the first two or three times and fail the next. (The German lab shoots the gun with specified loads measuring the barrels exterior and interior before and after. for changes and there better not be any changes.)

I think he is trolling a bit and that is what people have to do anymore on Youtube posting gun content to get more views. His method of making black powder works really well. I have learned quite a bit from him, but have a back ground in reloading and shooting. People with zero experience should probably not be taught by a guy like this! I kind of appreciate the lack of safety BS with his presentations.