Muzzleloading Myths

[Mr. Flintlock]

"If you don't seat a projectile all the way down tight against the powder the barrel will not suddenly blow apart."

Your words.

Not my words.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

In regard to static electricity not being able to ignite black powder... I know the Bevel Brothers tested it, and I believe the Navy did, too. I will totally believe that normal amounts of static from pouring from plastic containers cannot set it off. But I have ignited black powder with static electricity. I worked for 36 years in a fiberglass insulation factory. In my much younger days I was working on a line that made 4x8 ft. sheets of the base material for ceiling tiles. As they came off the belt one guy would stack them about a foot high and push each stack down several sections of metal roller conveyers to 2 more guys who stacked them onto ware trucks (all this totally automated these days). The stacker had to remember to keep the front of his thigh pressed against the metal frame to keep himself grounded. If you forgot for a few boards and then your leg touched you got a very nasty zap in your leg. The roller conveyors were in 8 foot units and if the gap between the sections was less than an inch you got a nice little arc of static "lightning" between the two. Being a flintlock shooter, of course my first thought was "That's a great spark! I wonder...." So I brought in some priming powder and put a little pile of it in the gap area. Sure enough- Poof! We tried it three or four times. This was about 30 years ago, and when I started seeing discussions of static and black powder a few years ago, I thought maybe I was remembering it wrong. So asked a friend who worked with me and he said yes, I was remembering correctly. I admit these were not your normal static conditions. I'm just saying that you cannot say that it is impossible.

Static electricity does not generate heat.

 

[chorizo]

Static electricity does not generate heat.

It certainly does and is a fire hazard:

https://www.hseblog.com/hazards-associated-with-static-electricity/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/static-electricity

 

[Patched]

Static electricity does not generate heat.

Oh…lightning didn’t get that memo…

 

[mushka]

The only metal I ever seasoned was cast iron cookware, never had to season a rifle barrel.

 

[chorizo]

The only metal I ever seasoned was cast iron cookware, never had to season a rifle barrel.

A controversial subject. There are small pores in metal, seasoning helps fill those pores. In theory that makes the bore smoother, gaining more velocity, reduces fouling between shots to help with consistency in accuracy and makes for ease of cleaning. Many long range shooters and target shooters use a fouling shot. In essence, seasoning the bore by filling in those minute voids.

To take into consideration: Your bore needs to be smooth already, with machining tool marks polished down via a variety of methods.

Some swear by it, others call BS......I know from my target shooting days that it helped. I also know, as I have said in another post on hooked breeches, that with our style of shooting (open sights, rough measuring of powder and unweighed/unsized projectiles) an extra cup of coffee has more impact to our accuracy.

So as for ease of cleaning and accuracy....since we scrub our bores with hot water and soap, in essence removing any real long term seasoning, I believe it is more of a confidence building measure than any real measurable help in accuracy or cleaning.

With all that said, if it helps you have confidence in your weapon..have at it.

 

[TexiKan]

I've been "seasoning" my barrels ever since T/C started promoting the idea. Haven't had any rust issues in forty years of shooting. That said, I haven't been able to crawl into the bore so I can get a close look at it.

I have done the same and then on this forum I read we should not. The debate was on: iron vs steel, accuracy based upon the ball sliding more; good, not good, etc. When the less wipe lubes came upon the scene, the manufacturers would advocate using their products after clean up. Yes, one thing for sure, cleaning after shots was far easier yet now the accuracy was compromised. Thou shall, thou shall not....

 

[smo]

I have “seasoned “ a bore with bore butter…
Never again.

This was years ago with the original formula and cleaning with Hot water & dish detergent…
It seemed as if the “seasoning “ could not be completely removed from the bore and eventually the shallow rifling disappeared…

It was like a hard carbon deposit that that couldn’t be removed….

Just my experience…never again.

 

[Patched]

A controversial subject. There are small pores in metal, seasoning helps fill those pores. In theory that makes the bore smoother, gaining more velocity, reduces fouling between shots to help with consistency in accuracy and makes for ease of cleaning. Many long range shooters and target shooters use a fouling shot. In essence, seasoning the bore by filling in those minute voids.

To take into consideration: Your bore needs to be smooth already, with machining tool marks polished down via a variety of methods.

Some swear by it, others call BS......I know from my target shooting days that it helped. I also know, as I have said in another post on hooked breeches, that with our style of shooting (open sights, rough measuring of powder and unweighed/unsized projectiles) an extra cup of coffee has more impact to our accuracy.

So as for ease of cleaning and accuracy....since we scrub our bores with hot water and soap, in essence removing any real long term seasoning, I believe it is more of a confidence building measure than any real measurable help in accuracy or cleaning.

With all that said, if it helps you have confidence in your weapon..have at it.

Just like the colonists, pioneers, western explorers and mountain men gun users of yor….I season my barrels…
….with hexagonal boron nitride powder in an alcohol solution after a deep hot water cleaning.
It burnishes into the micro pores of the steel with extremely slippery 2.5 micron high temperature ceramic particles. Apparently it remains in the micro pores, doesn’t build up like moly, and reduces fouling’s ability to stick, creating a more consistent shot to shot bore condition.
It appears to work for me …but only in my smoothest barrels.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

It certainly does and is a fire hazard:

https://www.hseblog.com/hazards-associated-with-static-electricity/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/static-electricity

Oh…lightning didn’t get that memo…

https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

THIS EXPLAINS IT ALL!

 

[chorizo]

THIS EXPLAINS IT ALL!

Hmmm. Very instructive with great visual examples.

Maybe it is the concentrated fine dust particles floating in the air that has led to the myth and not the granular form of the powder that we deal with on a daily basis.

Thank you for that article.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

Hmmm. Very instructive with great visual examples.

Maybe it is the concentrated fine dust particles floating in the air that has led to the myth and not the granular form of the powder that we deal with on a daily basis.

Thank you for that article.

I think there's a lot to be said about dust and dust explosions. Any flammable dust in the right environment can be deadly from any heat source..

 

[TexiKan]

I have “seasoned “ a bore with bore butter…
Never again.

This was years ago with the original formula and cleaning with Hot water & dish detergent…
It seemed as if the “seasoning “ could not be completely removed from the bore and eventually the shallow rifling disappeared…

It was like a hard carbon deposit that that couldn’t be removed….

Just my experience…never again.

Yes, when I ran out of my usual stuff, I tried an early batch of Bore Butter and the bore felt very rough! Went back and like the original poster, I have been using it ever since the multiple-shots-before-wiping was introduced. No, I continue to run a patch down the bore frequently.

 

[Patched]

THIS EXPLAINS IT ALL!

I’m shocked!…(pun intended)
That educated me…perhaps some graphite coating on the powder lowers the resistance ( is graphite coating a myth?)

 

[tenngun]

Those mallets were mostly for the extremely tight-fitting rifled arms, I believe. Common sense tells that you can't shoot at all quickly if you have to have a hammer to push things down the bore.

Common sense only works in common experience
Those mallets I’m referring to were used for military rifleman during the Napoleonic wars. Austria, Hungary and German states used them. Along with Spain at this time. The rifle troops could act as rangers, but most often servers as skirmishers, they Austrian guns used precut triangular patches worn on the hat, and the gun carried a separate ramrod with large decorative ergonomic head worn on the shooters bag
They didn’t make a gun for light troops designed to shoot slow
No, the mallet was to help speed loading. As a shooter can easily load in thirty to thirty five seconds

 

[Some_Mook]

Correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a mesh that makes 2f, wont there be some finer grains mixed in?

I think you have the process reversed in your mind.

The granulation process is such that the smaller grains and dust falls out first.

Regarding another 'myth' - The lower case 'g' refers to powder which has been glazed (polished) and does not indicate powder which has been mixed with graphite. Swiss powder is heavily graphited, which is why the grains are so shiny and silvery in appearance. Graphite is an impurity in gunpowder, and raises the ignition temperature / slows ignition, which in some applications is desirable. Graphite was also used in years past to improve the appearance of inferior quality gunpowder

 

[tenngun]

I think you have the process reversed in your mind.

The granulation process is such that the smaller grains and dust falls out first. The larger grains are what is left as the powder is passed over mesh of smaller size - the FF sized grains you reference pass over the smaller mesh size holes that the smaller particles pass through.

The dust / extremely small particles can be collected, moistened (liquored) and re-pressed into mill cake and re-processed through the granulation mill along with the very large 'chucks' that would not pass through the size of mesh screen being used to obtain the desired grain size.

Some of the 'dust' would be used for filling explosive shells or for making fuses.

After the powder has been granulated to the desired size it is in a rough and fractured state as yet unsuitable for use, and referred to as 'Foul Grain' and is coated in dust that would increase the powder's absorption of moisture and contribute to degradation of the powder if not processed further. Foul grain also will not pour smoothly as the rough edges catch and hang up with the other grains. The foul grain moves on to a first 'dusting' process and then to the glazing process where the powder is tumbled / polished to get rid of the coarse or jagged edges so that the powder flows more easily when measured. After glazing, the powder is subjected to a second dusting process. Then a drying process occurs and then a third, or 'finishing', dusting before it is ready to be used as small arms gunpowder.

Regarding another 'myth' - The lower case 'g' refers to powder which has been glazed (polished) and does not indicate powder which has been mixed with graphite. Swiss powder is heavily graphited, which is why the grains are so shiny and silvery in appearance. Graphite is an impurity in gunpowder, and raises the ignition temperature / slows ignition, which in some applications is desirable. Graphite was also used in years past to improve the appearance of inferior quality gunpowder

I was under the impression that the wet crack was passed though the screen setting it’s size before dried.
Been many years since I made powder and then in small batches. However watching vids in it it looks like it’s shredded dry

 

[Some_Mook]

Brett Gibbon's 'Like Fire and powder' is a good read if interested in such things.

 

[1BadDart]

I think there's a lot to be said about dust and dust explosions. Any flammable dust in the right environment can be deadly from any heat source..

One of the worst dust explosions in the US was in a sugar mill in Georgia. Soybean dust is another dangerous one.