Muzzleloading Puntguns

[Eterry]

As far as the punt guns being made from water pipe, the one video on YouTube was filmed in the UK and the gentleman spoke of punt guns being made by the large well respected gun makers. IIRC, H&H was quoted as making them, and others as well.

Just like most things, there's always a bubba who says " hey i got some pieces of scrap behind the garage and i bet i can make one".

 

[Big Al1]

This all started by me asking about muzzleloading punt guns..Your right that it was a market hunter tool..But this is true with most hunting guns we use...All I wanted is the information on how to build a punt gun or wall gun that all..

 

[hawkeye2]

"All I wanted is the information on how to build a punt gun or wall gun that all."

 

[dday1950]

First time I even heard about punt guns I was reading James Michner's novel "Chesapeake". Although fictional, Michner tries to be historically accurate. In the book he writes about brothers who do commercial duck hunting to earn money to buy an oyster boat. They purchase a punt gun and start out their business. The stories around that gun come up throughout the book, past and present, and are very entertaining.

 

[toot]

Whatever the merits of duck guns & punt guns .Non I believe would be firing gravel & scrap. This myth persists for blunderbusses as well . Just don't be trying it .
Rudyard

ROGER THAT!!

 

[TFoley]

Rather than shooting into the flock on the water it works better to fire when they just get up then fire into the flock. When they are on the water half the duck it under water and one duck shields others behind it. I recall reading that they did this with punts by firing with a regular shotgun to jump them up then timing the punt gun shot for maximum effect.

One of the old boys I shoot with is a punt-gunner- or rather, was, with his old man out on The Wash - you'll need to look that up to explain it. According to him, there always WAS an element of sportsmanship in it, no matter what you might hear from other people. The idea was NOT to shoot them on the water, but on the wing. To achieve this, the hand paddles worn by the shooter to propel himself in the water were slapped on the surface - making a loud impact sound. This served to 'put the birds aloft' whereupon the shooter would, uh, shoot.

 

[Feltwad]

One of the old boys I shoot with is a punt-gunner- or rather, was, with his old man out on The Wash - you'll need to look that up to explain it. According to him, there always WAS an element of sportsmanship in it, no matter what you might hear from other people. The idea was NOT to shoot them on the water, but on the wing. To achieve this, the hand paddles worn by the shooter to propel himself in the water were slapped on the surface - making a loud impact sound. This served to 'put the birds aloft' whereupon the shooter would, uh, shoot.

Some of the old punt guns were double barrel one barrel was fired by percussion and the other by flintlock an old friend of mine now departed had one of these who said that both barrels were fired together in to a flock of sitting birds the percussion barrel shot the sitting birds while the flintlock which was that few seconds slower shot the birds has the lifted from the water, he said the flintlock would kill a greater number of birds because with their wings spread were more vulnerable to the shot .
Feltwad

 

[Loyalist Dave]

both barrels were fired together in to a flock of sitting birds the percussion barrel shot the sitting birds while the flintlock which was that few seconds slower shot the birds has the lifted from the water, he said the flintlock would kill a greater number of birds because with their wings spread were more vulnerable to the shot .

I think your friend was repeating something somebody had "thought up" and told to him as to why the gun was one caplock, one flint. Even the flintlocks in poor condition as seen on the TV Series Daniel Boone fire too fast for the birds to have enough time to react as he claims. Two seconds or more is far far more delay than you ever get with a flinter unless you have a really bad (and consequently not consistently reproducible) hang fire.

I'd wager that the gun was made as an "all weather" and "not supply dependent".... [flint barrel still worked when caps could not be had...caplock worked when it was very damp]... gun. They were, after all, mounted on boats quite near the waterline and often the "sneak box boats" would move through reeds and such. Morning drizzle can play havoc with a flinter in those conditions.

LD

 

[Feltwad]

I think your friend was repeating something somebody had "thought up" and told to him as to why the gun was one caplock, one flint. Even the flintlocks in poor condition as seen on the TV Series Daniel Boone fire too fast for the birds to have enough time to react as he claims. Two seconds or more is far far more delay than you ever get with a flinter unless you have a really bad (and consequently not consistently reproducible) hang fire.

I'd wager that the gun was made as an "all weather" and "not supply dependent".... [flint barrel still worked when caps could not be had...caplock worked when it was very damp]... gun. They were, after all, mounted on boats quite near the waterline and often the "sneak box boats" would move through reeds and such. Morning drizzle can play havoc with a flinter in those conditions.

LD

Sir I am sure my friend was not repeating some thing somebody had [thought up] because he owned the punt gun and used it on the fens of Norfolk and southern counties of the UK .Personally I can not see any reason to doubt him has he was a experience punt gunner and owned several punt guns. yes the morning mist can cause havoc with a flitter but there were certain things to cover the locks punt gun locks came in many different types I have one that originally started has a match lock
Feltwad

 

[appalichian hunter]

GOTTA DO IT ----Protest punt guns save the ducks DLM

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Sir I am sure my friend was not repeating some thing somebody had [thought up] because he owned the punt gun and used it on the fens of Norfolk and southern counties of the UK .Personally I can not see any reason to doubt him has he was a experience punt gunner and owned several punt guns. yes the morning mist can cause havoc with a flitter but there were certain things to cover the locks punt gun locks came in many different types I have one that originally started has a match lock

"Several second delay"... simply because it was flint ignition..., ???
Please sir.....
Since you don't mention him speaking of some sort of slow powder concoction specially used by the gunner...,
Physics is physics

Ah well, perhaps he left out a detail when speaking with you.

LD

 

[Feltwad]

"Several second delay"... simply because it was flint ignition..., ???
Please sir.....
Since you don't mention him speaking of some sort of slow powder concoction specially used by the gunner...,
Physics is physics

Ah well, perhaps he left out a detail when speaking with you.

LD

Please answer me one question ARE YOU A PUNT GUNNER? your reply seems to me that you have never have been and have no knowledge too their use
No Offence
Feltwad

 

[appalichian hunter]

Feltwad , you from the UK the reason I ask, if so they allow these type weapons usage for water fowling now. From Britsmoothys posts which I totally enjoy, you guys have some very liberal game laws for what seems a very controlled country for firearms. Maryland has a rich history of water fowling and the old stories are good reads but PUNT guns have been illegal for many years for this type of hunting. As of now the areas goose season on the eastern shore is 1 goose a day, Also the ducks are closely regulated by both state and federal laws. but very liberal for what is called resident geese in areas of the state.

 

[Rudyard]

If I recall Lt Col Peter Hawkers 'Instructions to Young Sportsmen ' writings correctly and he was an avid chaser of waterfowl .He started the flock with a' popping pistol' , let off the flint and the percussion ( most likely a tube lock rather than cap ). The' detonater' (His term) shot the lower part while the Flint thrust up in elevation sythed into the upper birds . Then it was up to the cripple stopper ' Bloody Burnet' from memory. And one such double did reside at the Birmingham Proof house .Might still. I have only known such guns that where used on the Murray river . In Australia & we never fired it . But if anyone really know's punt guns its Feltwad or Pukka .
Rudyard

PS If you where in NZ they have battue shoots culling the overstaying Canada Geese all you can kill. No seasons & I think Govt cartridges are supplied. no punts just 12 bores . all other ducks & geese do have seasons & limits . Not that I go after waterfowl any sort . R

 

[appalichian hunter]

Interesting you statement of government cartridges being supplied, you fellows have problems down there. Control or special loads. Just asking.

 

[Rudyard]

The shooters are needed for this pest control, I will check re issued cartridges but I believe so I don't have any nitro 12 bores and I cant see then supplying powder shot & flints !.
Regards Rudyard

 

[Zonie]

We don't talk about cartridges gentlemen. Not even self contained shotgun shells.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Ducks Unlimited played a large part in changing the laws about "market hunting" of waterfowl, and protection of habitat to keep the population replenishing itself.
LD

I have an old magazine, I believe it might be Forest and Stream from about 1911 or 1912, that contains an editorial about the need to establish guidelines and limits nationally on migratory waterfowl hunting. I believe it also mentions some organizations, but I do not think DU was even a concept back then. The first national waterfowl laws were passed in 1918 to comply with the 1916 migratory bird treaty with Great Britain (on behalf of Canada) The Ducks Unlimited predecessor was not started until 1927. DU does magnificent work, and deserves credit for a great deal of our modern conservation, but others lobbied for the first limits on waterfowl hunting.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Thanks for the reminder Zonie, Just found it interesting that the fixins for a hunt were issued. Guess I let my curiosity get the best of me.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Please answer me one question ARE YOU A PUNT GUNNER? your reply seems to me that you have never have been and have no knowledge too their use
No Offence

THIS is what how you related the story....my emphasis...

PLEASE reply HOW THE PUNT GUN FLINTLOCK is able to cause a delay when

..., both barrels were fired together in to a flock of sitting birds the percussion barrel shot the sitting birds while the flintlock which was that few seconds slower ....,

A flintlock is a Flintlock, and normally, even when working poorly they are not "...few seconds slower" than a caplock.

Unless he forgot to mention to you that he used some sort of different flash powder OR..., he forgot to mention that there was some sort of built in delay with releasing the movement of the flint lock cock...., (so they didn't fire "together" as one was delayed) ...,which is quite the possibility as the British and Germans were quite clever with shooting contraptions.

Mount it on a boat, mount it on your shoulder, on a horse, heck mount it on a balloon, you haven't explained HOW the guy got the "several seconds delay" from the flintlock, (which of course would need to be consistent to work as described) when both were fired together?


LD